Is Staying Up Late Rude?

Posted on by

0

Maybe people are afraid they will find their guests hiding under the bed while they sleep. Via

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

So my dad kept getting in trouble for staying up late at my grandmother’s house and reading at night. Nana would see him, just reading and get angry and start yelling at him.

Tonight my other Nana mentioned that she hates being awake in a house that everyone’s sleeping in. That it is rude- people will think you’ve been nosing around.

So! Is this a generational thing? Are you not supposed to stay up while others are sleeping? Not even, like, staying up making noise, but just staying up in general? My parents hadn’t heard of it- but this was an apparent learned thing for my grandparents.

Sincerely,

Wide Awake

Official Etiquette

There is no official etiquette because this is nonsense.

Our Take

Jaya: What on earth is Nana talking about?

Victoria: Made up nonsense! So basically, shes saying that its rude to stay up later than everyone else in the house even if you are just in your room and being quiet because it seems like you are being sneaky?

Jaya: Yeah, which, I don’t understand how you practically apply this if you’re not the only person in your house. Even if you’re in your room, some people like to stay up and read! Or are just not tired yet! The first searches for this on Google bring up like, hostel etiquette.

Victoria: Seriously. Although, I do find it weird when I am the only person awake and I feel like I am in some kind of post apocalyptic world where I am the last human on earth…but maybe that’s just me.

Jaya: No I totally get that.

Victoria: I do think that if you are a guest in someone’s home, you should retire to your room or couch or something when the hosts go to bed. Though you don’t necessarily have to sleep- as long as you are ready to wake up whenever you need to be awake for the next days activities. I also think, as a house guest, you should try not to sleep in toooooo much longer than the hosts- unless the host knows they get up ridiculously early and tells you to sleep til whenever.

Jaya: Yeah, and obviously that depends on your relationship to the hosts. This sort of addresses it. It is sort of awkward if I wake up way earlier than everyone and am wandering around.

Victoria: And yeah, obviously depending on your relationship. I mean, in your parents house, even if you are visiting, you are still family and can do what you want.

Jaya: But I cannot imagine freaking out if I had a guest, said I was going to bed, and they were like “ok I’m gonna stay up and read a bit.”

Victoria: Hahah yeah! For sure, that’s kind of rude. You want to make your guests comfortable!

Jaya: Also, if you as the host are asleep, how would you even know others are awake and nosing around? You’re sleeping!

Victoria: Yeah! Although, my mom claims she could tell when me and my sister were home or not when she was asleep.

Jaya: Unless you’re pretending to sleep to see if your guests also sleep and then surprise them when they don’t sleep, which is just creepy.

Victoria: Yeah, although, if you live in a small place, it’s conceivable that you can see a tiny bit of the light or sense movement, but still, who cares?

Jaya: True. And obviously you shouldn’t be up partying or watching TV loudly or whatever. Man, most etiquette things I can see where they come from, and this one I really can’t. Unless you live in a mansion and have strangers as guests all the time. It’s another case of like, weird etiquette rules when, generally, you know and like the people you have at your house. Your son is not trying to steal your silver.

Victoria: I mean, it probably comes from a time when people had more house guests or some weird derivation from the English country house party. I mean, Emily Post is full of etiquette for visiting people in the country, who you don’t really know super well. But yeah, still even there, there’s not really anything about this.

Musings On Religion, Holidays, and the In Laws

Posted on by

1

Family Saying Grace, 1585

Family Saying Grace, 1585 [Via]

We’ve spoken a bit about etiquette in places of worship already, though the idea is pretty simple. Be respectful, dress conservatively to be on the safe side, and ask if there’s anything you’re unsure about. However, most of us aren’t just popping into random religious services all the time. What’s more likely is that you’re invited to participate in a service or tradition by your close friends and family, especially your In Laws, and with 45% of marriages in the US between people of different faiths, this probably happens a lot!

While my relationship is not interfaith, our families are. My husband’s family is Jewish, and mine is a combination of vaguely Christian, Hindu, and “have you read the new Sam Harris book?” As such, there are occasions where we’ll be asked to participate in services and traditions we don’t believe in, which can be difficult depending on your view of religion.

Here’s my thing: I have a hard time participating in a religious ceremony or tradition if I know I don’t believe it, no matter how welcome my hosts have made me feel. To me, it feels dishonest to fake it while everyone around me earnestly believes what’s being said. I’ve been told many times throughout my life that I just need to go with the flow, and there are times where I have been able to ignore it  and have a good time. But usually I feel like it’s not my place to be there and participate, even if I’ve been explicitly invited. I am a crazy person and maybe you shouldn’t be turning to me for etiquette advice. Oops.

There’s also a difference between a ceremony taking place in a place of worship, or in a more private setting. In a church I can stand and sit along with everyone else, and no on will notice if I don’t say “amen.” However, there are certain rituals that take place in the home, and it’s a lot more obvious if I’m not participating.

Okay, so what does this mean in terms of practical etiquette? Well, if you get the sense that someone is not comfortable practicing your religion, do not ask them to “go with the flow.” That’s like telling an anxious person to “just calm down,” like really, you don’t think they tried that already? Also, be up front about what’s expected, and be gracious if they cannot meet those expectations, even if they seem minimal to you. If you’re the one being asked to participate, ask questions and participate where you can, and if anyone asks why you’re not participating in a certain ritual, explain that you don’t feel comfortable doing so. If they try to pressure you, they’re the rude ones. Also, see if there are other places you can help out, such as cooking some of a meal or helping set things up. It’ll show you’re grateful for being invited and included, even if you don’t feel like fully participating.

The Cut Direct: The Fiercest Etiquette Punishment

Posted on by

7

Go watch Charlie the Unicorn if you never have.

Did you guys know that there is something that you can do when someone is so unspeakably rude that you can no longer bear to be in their presence? It is only to be used in the most dire of etiquette circumstances because it is a very cruel thing to do someone who doesn’t deserve it. You can cut someone (not with a knife!). Basically you completely ignore them to their face. A version of the silent treatment, as it were. If you look straight at someone, especially at their greeting, and do not acknowledge them in any way, then you are cutting them.

The cut direct goes back a long time- it developed during the Regency period (Jane Austen times) and could be much more socially devastating than just one person ignoring another. There were also a lot of rules that went along with it:

  • To be a true cut, the cutter had to be so deliberate and obvious about it that the cuttee could have no doubt about what was happening.
  • A gentleman was never to cut a lady, no matter what she had done.
  • Gentlemen had to be particularly careful about cutting other gentlemen, as the snub could lead to the challenge of a duel.
  • Unmarried ladies were not to cut married ladies.
  • Hosts could not cut their guests (why had they invited them in the first place?)
  • Social leaders had to be very cautious in using it, as their use of it could very well destroy a person socially (if you are completely ostracized from Society, then you ruin all of your marriage prospects and/or your children’s marriage prospects, and since at the time, marriage was a consolidation of wealth and power- then you would have none. Not to mention having no friends and basically no where to go and nothing to do.) Famously, the Prince of Wales cut Beau Brummel publicly and it actually backfired on him because Beau hadn’t really done anything dreadful and everyone felt that the Prince was abusing his power shamefully.

A cut direct must be employed only when someone has done something truly horrible and everyone in your social circle knows it. Otherwise it will make you look petty and cruel.

It Was A Wedding Gift, Not An Engagement Gift!

Posted on by

0

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I recently came across your post on giving wedding gifts, which advises sending a gift “around 1-3 months before the wedding.” What happens when I send the gift two months out (because theres not a lot left on the registry), and they very quickly follow with a Thank You note saying it was a “VERY generous engagement gift.” But, it was their wedding gift! So obnoxious! How do I handle this?

Sincerely,

Not So Gifted

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

The Emily Post Institute says engagement gifts are neither “obligatory nor expected,” but that if they are given, they’re often given at an engagement party. The Knot also specifies that these parties should happen no more than three months after the couple has gotten engaged, likely to avoid confusions like this.

OUR TAKE
Victoria: HAHAHAHA omg. People are dumb is the answer. You don’t get an engagement gift, and if you were to get one, it would be immediately.

Jaya: This is totally a symptopm of long engagements right? Like, this would not happen if we had 3-4 month engagements.

Victoria: Yeah, although, I suppose that would be more confusing if there’s less time between the wedding and engagement.

Jaya: Maybe. I don’t know, it just seems like now engagement gifts are an expectation. I got a few, and they were all lovely, but I also had it in my head that if this was the only gift I got from that person it’d be totally fine!

Victoria: The point is engagement gifts are not to be expected- like you said, you got a few- that’s an exception rather than a rule.

Jaya: The writer certainly does not have to explain themselves. You bought them a generous gift, and now just go to the wedding and have fun. If they ask about an wedding gift that is incredibly rude, but if that happens you can explain the gift you got them was the wedding gift.

Victoria: Yeah, they will figure it out when they don’t get another gift. I suppose, if you were close to the person, you could call them up and be like “oh darling, how droll, you thought your wedding gift was an engagement present- too funny! See you at the wedding.” (I have been reading a British book about the 20s so this is how I speak now.) (Ed: It’s Life After Life by Kate Atkinson and it’s amazing!)

Etiquette Tidbits #1

Posted on by

1

Men are safest kept in bottles. [Via]

So there are a lot of pieces of etiquette that don’t really fit into a whole how-to post or merit all that much discussion, little etiquette tidbits as it were. Here are a few:

  • Don’t take the flowers/centerpieces from a wedding reception unless you are specifically told to.
  • Always remove the price tag from gifts (or use a sharpie to cross it out).
  • Put your gum in the trash instead of under furniture or on the sidewalk.
  • Don’t pick flowers, fruit, or vegetables from people’s yards!
  • Obvious subtweeting is rude, however, feel free to subtweet brands, because, despite what the government says, corporations are not people with feelings to be hurt.