Trying To Separate Etiquette and Respectability Politics

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In my time writing here, I’ve conducted a lot of fun research, from learning how to walk properly to how to take snuff. But it’s pretty obvious that the Western rules, no matter how arcane or relevant, have one thing in common: they were all dictated by rich white people.  In fact, I’m going to go ahead and guess that no matter where you are, most rules of social interaction come from those in power. Sure, etiquette is sold as a way for us all to navigate possibly confusing social situations, but let’s not pretend it wasn’t also used to weed out who wasn’t supposed to belong. It’s hard to make the rules fair when they’re being made by the winners.

Which brings us to respectability politics, or the idea of defining someone’s worth by how they present themselves to the world. Roxane Gay puts it excellently in her new book, Bad Feminist: “the idea that if black (or other marginalized) people simply behave in ‘culturally appropriate’ ways, if we mimic the dominant culture, it will be more difficult to suffer the effects of racism.”

If you squint, a lot of respectability politics can be mistaken for etiquette. We’re not rejecting people because of class or race or sex, we tell ourselves, but because they’re not being “respectable.” A girl who has sex on the first date surely can’t be worthy of a respectable relationship. A black guy can’t expect to get anywhere using slang all the time. Being gay is fine as long as you don’t flaunt it. Say the right things, dress the right way, don’t “act out.” Just adhere to the rules that you had no say in creating and you’ll be fine.

I remember times where I’ve fallen into this. Where I thought “it doesn’t matter who you are, as long as you’re like me,” and not noticing when it slipped into “No matter who you are, this is how you should be acting.” It’s letting personal preferences turn into value judgments. It’s mistaking a difference in culture for having no culture, or a difference in upbringing with rudeness, and expecting everyone to adapt to your standards.

I’ve said before that they core of etiquette is the balance between making room for others and keeping room for yourself. Literally this manifests itself through things like keeping to one side of a staircase so others can pass while you use it, hosting a party that’s fun for your guests and also fun for you, or making sure you and your roommate have equal living room time. But culturally, it’s about making sure we share the value of being considerate without imposing other value systems on each other. Etiquette is supposed to be about finding the good intentions in everyone, and that requires effort on all sides, especially if you’re on the side that’s been making the rules the whole time. In a perfect world, that’s all these rules are: shorthand to ensure your good intentions are clearly understood. But that doesn’t mean someone whose actions don’t look like yours doesn’t have those intentions.

You will not like everyone you meet in life. You will meet people who are downright rude to you, or who come from such different backgrounds that you cannot come to an understanding, despite your best efforts. This is fine for your personal life, but you should never mistake these personal differences for proof that somebody doesn’t deserve to be treated with basic humanity.

I Thought We Weren’t Friends, But I’m Invited To The Wedding

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Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

Today I got an email from a person from college I’ve “broken up with,” by which I mean I haven’t talked to them in years and de friended them on Facebook because they are generally a NOPE person these days. This person just sent an email asking for my address to send their wedding invitation.

WHAT DO I DO.

I mean, there’s been no contact at all and I was sort of hoping they’d get the picture by now. Do I send my address and then decline the invitation to not ruffle feathers at this junction, or will that just seem to invite them to try to rekindle the relationship which DO NOT WANT. Or can I ignore it and hope I don’t have to ever deal with it and they get the picture without me having to be like “we’re not friends anymore please stop.” Because clearly I’ve been avoiding that talk.

Signed,
Ack

 

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

Miss Manners says that declining an invitation needn’t include any explanation as to why (for instance, because you do not want to be friends any more), and Emily Post agrees. However, most of the advice is for after you’ve received an invitation, and assumes you have slightly-fond feelings toward the person sending it.

OUR TAKE

Jaya: I know this is why the “friendship fadeout” is bad, so let that be a lesson to us all. Even though I’ll probably keep doing it.

Victoria: Man, this type of person will just not give up. I have someone like that from High School. He just repeatedly tries to get in touch and I am not having it.

Jaya:  I think the lowest-impact option is to just send your address (plainly, with no “oooh congrats, so exciting!” or anything), and decline the invitation when it comes. As much as you might want to, a wedding is not the time to have the “actually we’re not friends” talk. Though, if this behavior continues post-wedding, that may have to happen.

Victoria: I’d also consider not sending a gift or card.  Although, that might be a good reason to advocate emailing a “thanks but no thanks” since a wedding invitation generallllly requires a gift.

Jaya: A gift is a gift, not a requirement!

Victoria: Yesss, but in our culture there’s an idea that you should send a gift even if you can’t attend. The couple shouldn’t EXPECT it, but it’s a firm Miss Manners rule that invitation=gift.

Jaya: Yeah but that’s why we’re here, to discuss and dispel these rules. Anyway, I do think not sending a gift sends the intended hint that the friendship is over.

Victoria: Though it’s less strong if the person hasn’t been picking up on these hints in the first place.

Jaya: Right? It feels weird to say this, but in our modern times I think de-friending on Facebook is a pretty accepted hint.

Victoria: Back to the fadeout. I think it’s good for friends who are far away who you don’t want to keep in touch with. As much as it’d be nice to end things cleanly, those sorts of conversations can be really hurtful. But if it’s someone you see all the time, a direct conversation needs to happen.

Jaya: I don’t know about living far away. I have a lot of friends from college who live in different cities now, and sometimes we won’t talk for a while, but then we’ll see each other and it’s like nothing has changed. I think it would be easy to mistake an intentional fadeout with “oh we just don’t talk sometimes but we’re still close.”

Victoria: Yeah, although I think the de-Facebooking would be a pretty big hint. Ideally you can tell the difference with a fadeout in that the person will just not respond to you.

Group Emails: To bcc or not to bcc

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Even Shakespeare was all like “Hey everyone! Apple picking time!”

Sometime in our 20s, we stopped using Facebook to plan events and started switching to group emails. This was great and felt very mature. But sometimes group emails are a great tool and sometimes they are a huge annoyance (or they are great comedy fodder- if you have not yet read Hey Ladies– check it out!). If you really need to plan something with input from everyone, you have no choice but to cc everyone and possibly have a long, unwieldy thread. But if everyone follows a few simple rules, it can stay pretty manageable:

  • Stick to the topic at hand. If you are trying to arrange an apple picking trip, don’t bring up your next hiking trip.
  • Make sure you actually answer the question. If an event is being planned, say yes or no before you start posting wacky gifs and jokes.
  • If you volunteer to do something, make sure you do it.
  • If you agree to show up to something, make sure you show up.
  • If someone asks to be removed from a thread because they aren’t interested in the topic or can’t make it, oblige.
  • Make sure you hit “reply all” so everyone sees your input (unless you really only want to address one person, like the email originator, to make a specific remark.)
  • If you want to talk behind someone’s back to a specific person, make sure you DON’T hit reply all.
  • You don’t have to participate, but don’t get mad about decisions that are made when you haven’t given any input.

Of course, if the organizer only wants input from individuals without any discussion, they are absolutely free to use a BCC so no one can see who else got the email. Personally this is not my preference as I think it is nice to be able to see who else is invited to an event or party, that way a person can choose in advance if they want to avoid drama with another guest by not attending and also avoids the awkwardness of “sooooo, did so-and-so invite you to their party?” where you want to find out if someone is going to something but don’t want to hurt their feelings if they weren’t invited.

Share with me your greatest group email stories!!

Don’t Talk To Me In An Elevator

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Awkward

Awkward

Small talk is not something everyone is going to be good at. That’s fine, just making an effort in most social situations is good enough. However, I have one rule that I try to stick to as often as possible: do not engage in a conversation unless you both have an opportunity to leave at any moment.

This doesn’t really apply with close friends and family, because presumably you want to be talking to these people and hanging out in their houses. If you run into your best friend on line at the pharmacy, chances are they’ll want to talk to you. But with acquaintances/co-workers this is a different story. For instance, last week I got in the elevator at my office as I was first coming in, and another woman (someone I don’t work with) got in with me. It was just after 9 so I was still considering this ride part of my commute, and was mentally preparing myself for the day, when she begins talking to me about how my shoes match her shirt, and weather, and whatnot. There was nowhere to run, and it is a very slow, old elevator. It was my personal hell.

I’m not a jerk (I hope) so I made the required gestures and responses, but inside I was dying. It seemed to me accepted behavior to just nod at everyone in an elevator as you get on, unless you were already talking with someone you knew as you were both waiting. And if this isn’t accepted behavior, then dammit, it should be.

In a larger sense, why would you even want to conduct a conversation when you are literally trapped with the person? You have to know they are only conversing with you out of a lack of other options, not out of any sort of enthusiasm or interest. That’s just no way to treat someone.

Breaking Down “Do Over Weddings”

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Best game?

So there’s a new trend in the wedding world where a couple decides to elope or have an intimate ceremony (or sometimes has to rush down to City Hall for a legal wedding for any number of reasons) and then later on decide that they feel like they missed out on the big white wedding and so decide to have that in some way. This can be very controversial in the wedding parts of the internet. Offbeat Bride calls it “getting weddinged” vs “getting legaled” and A Practical Wedding discusses it pretty frequently too. However, these sites, obviously, lean towards the more “throw etiquette into the wind and do what suits you” side of wedding planning. On sites like The Knot, these types of weddings are referred to as “Pretty Pretty Princess Days” and are very much frowned on. Your mainstream etiquette doyennes such as Miss Manners and the Emily Post Institute all advise against them, though agree that a reception following an elopement is fine.

To sum up the debate:

Reasons why people want to have after-the-fact weddings:

  • Sometimes life gets in the way with insurance, immigration, military deployments, and other legal issues and you have to get a legal marriage before you’ve had the chance to finish saving money for or planning a wedding.
  • Some people feel nervous or shy about talking about their feelings in public and want to do that part in private.
  • Some people elope and then regret not getting to celebrate with all of their friends and family.
  • Some people loved their elopement but their families were mad that they didn’t have a wedding and are now pressuring them to have one.
  • Some people feel that their vows don’t become “real” until they say them before friends and family or in a religious space.
  • The want to have a religious component that wasn’t possible in a City Hall wedding.
  • Some people see the legal component and the community component can be completely separate and don’t feel “married” from the legal ceremony.
  • If the couple comes from two or more cultures with very specific wedding traditions, and wants to please the family by holding a “traditional” wedding from both sides.

Reasons why they are frowned upon (NB: a reception after an elopement is always fine, etiquette wise. This supposes a full do over of the ceremony, complete with fancy dress and bridal party).

  • Often times the couple will lie about the fact that they are already married. This can be especially problematic with religious ceremonies. The Catholic Church, at least, considers legal weddings to be valid and will not conduct a wedding ceremony for already married people, so to have one, you will have to lie. They do have a marriage blessing that you can do.
  • Some people feel that the motivation behind having a big wedding later is to get the gifts that they missed out on by eloping.
  • Some people feel that if they are not witnessing the legal marriage then it doesn’t count and the wedding is “fake,” there is a theory that you get one wedding per marriage.
  • Some people feel that weddings are mandatory events, but often won’t consider a non-wedding celebration to be the same level of importance and don’t want to travel for it.
  • It can be a little confusing about what date you use as your wedding date for legal purposes vs for celebratory purposes.
  • That sometimes life intervenes and you have to have a quick wedding instead of an elaborate one, and you should just deal with it. (Kind of an American puritanism “act in haste, repent at leisure” kind of judgement.)
  • A giant wedding is not a right and people don’t want to play along to help you create a fantasy that isn’t “real.”
  • It’s insulting to people who choose to elope or have a courthouse wedding to insinuate that it’s not real or not romantic or fun.
  • Your friends and family may SAY they are okay with it, but there are plenty of people who have gone along with do over weddings who felt that they couldn’t say anything, even though they didn’t think it was okay.

Okay, so that’s a lot, and obviously Jaya and Victoria have a lot of thoughts on the subject. It’s important to us to remind our readers that with everything that we write about, we just want to give you all of the information so you can make your decisions fully informed with what the consequences of those decisions might be.

So this conversation happened in response to this piece, in which the couple felt overwhelmed by saying their vows in front of everyone and eloped privately on a mountain (in Colorado where you don’t need witnesses), but then held a full wedding, complete with another ceremony and vows, in front of their family and friends.

Jaya: I feel like that’s not so bad. Like, that’s a decent way to have two things.

Victoria: Yeah, it wasn’t the worst.

Jaya: I am curious if they told their guests though.

Victoria: But I still don’t get this idea of “oh we are shy so we had a private thing” so we are going to have a thing by ourselves and then a big wedding where we are going to say all the things we say we are too shy to say anyway.

Jaya: Yeah I agree. Though, I totally understand not wanting to say these personal things in front of a lot of people!

Victoria: Yeah, so then, don’t and just elope, and leave it at that!!!

Jaya: Right, or have a big party afterwards, but just have it be a reception, not the ceremony part.

Victoria: Yeah, and don’t dress up in a wedding dress, maybe? I mean, I get it, but I think it’s sort of weird.

Jaya: My parents did that. They got married in my grandparent’s living room with really close family,  and then a few months later held a party at a restaurant. But there was no “ceremony” at the restaurant.

Victoria: Yeah, for sure. And like, my parents planned a full-on wedding with family flying in from across the country at a church and everything…in 6 weeks. So it can be done if you are in a hurry, but maybe you have to buy a dress off the rack and don’t get the whole wedding dress shopping “experience” and tons of food tastings and looking at venues and stuff. You just find something open and you do it. Plenty of corporate type events are planned with only a month or two of notice.

Jaya: This whole debate ties into this “haters gonna hate” culture that I find frustrating.  Everyone is saying “oh who cares about the haters, you do you.” And most of the time I am VERY “you do you” on things. But here, no one is hating just to be mean to you. It’s because there are legitimate concerns you may not have considered. If you consider them and still wanna do this, go ahead!! But I don’t think you should be shocked that some people are confused if you have two ceremonies.

Victoria: It sort of seems like a freedom of speech argument to me- like you are free to do whatever crazy thing you want, but everyone is also free to not attend.

Jaya: You’re setting up this thing where you’re either lying to your family, or changing the thing they’re trying to come to. And yes, the actual, legal change is not what people are there to celebrate. No one is in the room when you sign the marriage certificate. I guess that’s what confuses me on the other end. You’re there to celebrate the couple’s love or whatever, so whether they sign the document that day or weeks before is not really the point, right?

Victoria: I mean, I think people are happy to CELEBRATE even if the actual marriage occurred previously….but I do think a lot of people object to watching a “fake” ceremony. And I really do think that there is a limit of the amount of time after the wedding that people are still in a celebratory mood. 6 months might be close to the top….if everyone has already seen you and congratulated you and started treating you like a married person…it starts to get like…what are we celebrating again, didn’t we already do this? If in their minds, they have already celebrated your marriage they aren’t going to be interested in doing it again.

Jaya: Ahhh yeah. Definitely. And I mean, you don’t have to tell everyone you got “technically” married. Your “real” anniversary is not really of much importance to everyone else, and I really understand the serenity that can come with knowing it’s already “done” by the time the big day comes.

Victoria: Yeah…I mean….I would not not tell people…it seems too close to lying to me.

Jaya: Yeah that’s the other thing too.

Victoria: I get that people get hurt that some of their guests might not want to travel long distances to come to the celebration. But this is a really really new thing in the wedding “industry” and a looooooot of people, especially in the older generation, just do not understand and will not place the same importance on the celebration as the “actual” wedding.

Jaya: However much the “technical” marriage matters to you, it’ll probably mean something to other people (or maybe not)! And you’re free to figure out what works for you and your circle but like, if I had just gone to City Hall and not told my mom, she would have been so upset, even if she had a chance to “celebrate my love” on a different day. And I would have felt awful about not telling my family or friends we had done that. I couldn’t keep that secret.

Victoria: Yeah, exactly, and I mean, I have never actually encountered it myself, and I have thought about it a LOT and I STILL don’t know what I would choose to do when presented with such a situation. I guess it would depend on the couple. But then again…I really like parties and get bad FOMO.

Jaya: Hahaha, I think it also depends on what the small, private ceremony is like. If, like this woman, it’s the two of you on top of a mountain wanting a private moment that’s self-solemnized (which can only be done in some states), totally. If it’s you and 10 family members, but then you want a bigger thing later, that just seems like two weddings. This is the ultimate case of like, you really can do whatever you want, just understand that people bring their own expectations to these things.

Victoria: Although I don’t get, if you must have a private moment, just make your fake non-legal vows then and then do the legal vows on the day you will celebrate with everyone. Maybe this is why I am not a relationship person.

Jaya: Hahahaha, that’s true! The meaning behind the vows isn’t about legalities.

Victoria: Yeah, and if you don’t REALLY care, then do it when people do care? It just seems so hard to keep all these dates straight- like the day we got married and the day we got really married? And who did we tell and who did we not tell?

Jaya: I was asking some friends about this, who got married 5 years ago so she could stay in this country but had their actual wedding last summer and yeah, they consider their anniversary the technical date 5 years ago. But I understand the desire for the actual wedding, because you know, ceremony and religion and such are important to us.

Victoria: Yeah, but then, why not do it sooner? I mean, once you’ve legally tied yourselves together, you should be PRETTY sure that you really want to be married.

Jaya: Hahaha true, yeah I have no idea with them, but their circle was all happy and supportive, which is all that matters.

Victoria: It seems way scarier to me to be legally bound than just lovey and religiously. Like if you just have a “fake” (for lack of a better word) religious and love ceremony, you can break it off at any time! But the legal ceremony has SERIOUS real life consequences. And so many of these double wedding stories brush it off so much like, “oh get the boring part out of the way.”

Jaya: Yeah, I think what confuses me is the having two ceremonies part. If you want to do your ceremony privately and have it as Your Moment, that makes total sense. And then like, go out and invite people to a party and dance. But having a second, “fake” ceremony, even though what you are saying and feeling is obviously real, sort of defeats the point of “oh we’re too shy to say stuff in public.”

Victoria: Yeah, and like, I get it for people who HAD to get married in a rush…but I still kind of feel like you can invite whoever can come and make it special and then just have the celebration later, without the re-do.

Jaya: Do you think this is part of the dreaded WIC? The idea that it’s not “official” unless there is the big wedding?

Victoria: Yeah..I kind of do. Like there are SO MANY stories of people’s parents and grandparents just getting married. Even tons of “golden era” Hollywood stars and Presidents and stuff just got married in a simple suit (the bride!) and had a tiny cake to celebrate and just called it done.

Jaya: I think it’s good to realize it’s not just the couple that the wedding industry affects. Even if you and your spouse are fine with eloping or something, you have your family or best friends telling you you need to have a wedding, and then you feel guilty and it leads to this.

Victoria: Hahah yeah, I think there might be starting to be a bit of a backlash. It seems like there are a lot more elopement stories on wedding sites recently. And I have known a few girls who got married fairly quickly for whatever reason, and they did super simple things at the registry office and as far as I’ve seen, have no plans to have a big thing.

Jaya: I guess I just feel like the idea of eloping and then holding a party later is already a thing that’s done. And no one could blame you. But having two ceremonies (unless one is legal and one is religious, like they do in France) comes off as a bit false. Though I do have a cousin that sort of did this. She and her husband got married six months before their wedding to get him on health insurance. But the wedding was already being planned. And anyway it was a Hindu ceremony, so no one knows what the vows are anyway, it’s in Sanskrit. And I found out and there was no part of me that was like “Goodness I’ve been lied to! I certainly won’t show up!”

Victoria: Yeah, somehow I find religious ceremonies a bit different? Like the Catholic Church for one, already has a ceremony set up for exactly this situation, and you are actually supposed to have your civil marriage blessed if you didn’t get married in the church. But like….maybe tone down the whole white poofy dress thing? And the bridesmaids and the whole hullaballoo? I think a lot of problems can be avoided by really examining why you are doing things. Like, are you having a ceremony because your religion requires it or do you just want everyone to watch? Or do you think everyone expects it but you actually don’t care? Or do you just want to wear a big white dress and have a ton of attention? Granted, I think people in the last category are doing the worst and are the least likely to examine their motives.

Jaya: Uhhh I was totally like “when else in my life am I gonna get to wear a sparkle dress and get my makeup done?”

Victoria: Hahahahah, but you also didn’t rush down to City Hall to get married ahead of time. I mean, it’s a perfectly legit desire. But like, if you want the wedding and not just the marriage, you kind of have to play by the rules.

Jaya: There were many moments where we were totally ready to run to City Hall but we realized it wouldn’t have felt right without all our people there. Like, that was more important to us, even though it was frustrating and intimidating. Also, on a practical note, I will say having private time after the ceremony is a really good time for all those personal vows you don’t wanna say in front of people.

Victoria: Yeah! There’s no reason why your wedding can’t accommodate all that. Like, I’m shy, so I will probably stick to super traditional non-fussy vows.

Jaya: My husband and I took ten minutes after the ceremony to just chill in a room alone and let it all sink in. And while our vows were things we chose and things we meant, they weren’t hyper-personal to our lives our relationship. So in those moments alone, we got to say things that were just for us, and it was great.

Victoria: Awwwwww

Jaya: And yeah in a lot of ways that felt more “real” than the signing the certificate. I guess though, my thing is that as a host you should be honest with your guests, and let them make up their minds about things. And you might say it’s none of their business when you get married, or if you elope, or anything like that, but I mean…you did invite them to your wedding, you’re sort of making it their business.