How Do I Decide Whose Holiday Invitation to Accept?

Get it? Because multiple invitations feels like a tug of war! [Via Flickr user futureshape]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I’m trying to come up with some sort of question in something resembling eloquent English about holiday parties and invitations and respecting RSVP and how do you handle roommate/friends/family invites. Also, if you have multiple invites (lucky child) what is a good way to decline or accept or whatever. You covered parts of this in your “RSVPs are for real, yo” thing, which people know for weddings, but tend to forget/be more lax about when it comes to holiday dinners and then if no one shows, boy your friends are jerks and now you have an entire turkey and a vat of creamed corn and it’s just sad. But basically, if your friend invites you to a holiday dinner first but then your brother invites you, does family trump friends? If your roommates parents have invited you to dinner 8 times and it hasn’t worked out, at what point do you make that plan a priority over all other plans? Help.

Best,

I Don’t Know Where I’m Going

 

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

You still have to let people know if you are or are not coming to everything you are invited to. Especially holiday dinners. Etiquette has no say about where you go, you have to make that choice for yourself.

OUR TAKE

Jaya: This is one of those times where I wish I were a kid again. When you’re a kid you just go where your parents go. No need for decisions.

Victoria: Yeah, I guess it’s lucky in a way that I don’t have close-by family, so my sister and I just hang out at home and make some food and watch some movies on Thanksgiving. And I just go to my parents’ house for Christmas. But I think we are in agreement that your family trumps friends for holidays. If someone invites you, you just say, “I’d love to but I have to do family things, so sorry.”

Jaya: I think in general yes, but also, everyone’s family is different. My mom has always said if I wanted to do Christmas with friends or just go on vacation elsewhere, it would be totally fine. But we’re pretty lax about holidays in general. Divorce does that. So just, know your audience.

Victoria: I mean, family trumps if you want to/it’s important to hang out with your family.

Jaya: If you know it would mean a lot to your friend, and your family is cool without you, then go hang out with your friend.

Victoria: I guess by trumps I meant more like, if you can’t come to a friends house for a holiday because of a family thing, they should understand.

Jaya: Oh yeah, definitely.

Victoria: But then again, you don’t really owe anyone an explanation for why you are or are not able to come.

Jaya: Right, but I think it’s understood for holidays that you may have family obligations. But also, even if it is your family, you should give a firm RSVP.

Victoria: Totally! Especially if its not JUST your parents.

Jaya: If you tell your mom the day before that you’re not coming, then that screws them. And even if it is just your parents, that might mean your parents are having dinner alone!

Victoria: Ahhh yeah! So sad (though maybe not if you have siblings). Your single child privilege is showing, JAYA

Jaya : Oh yeah, cause that’s a privilege. WORRYING ABOUT YOUR PARENTS EATING ALL ALONE ON CHRISTMAS. Showing your sibling-ed naivite, Victoria.

Victoria: Yesssss.

Jaya: Let’s talk about for situations with multiple RSVPs.

Victoria: Sure.

Jaya: There is something that I’ve been dealing with recently. If you know about one event first, but don’t receive a physical/official invitation to it until after you’ve been invited to something else on the same day, which do you go to?

Victoria: Okay, so the rule about RSVPing is not that you go with the one you were INVITED to first, you go to the one you RSVPd yes to.

Jaya: Ooooooh.

Victoria: So if you get two invitations before you have a chance to respond to one, you get to choose!

Jaya: Good to know!

Victoria: You just can’t change your RSVP to, “I got a better offer.”

Jaya: Though what if you RSVP’’d to one event and your sister all of a sudden decides to get married. I mean it sucks but people would probably understand?

Victoria: That’s why I really like save the dates for weddings, or sending out invitations for other events on the early side. But in that case, it’s basically a family emergency, as long as it’s not the day before or something.

Jaya: Also your sister is annoying in that case.

Victoria: So she also asks about prioritizing an event you’ve had to reschedule like, 8 times, and I definitely think after a couple of reschedules, you should pretty much drop everything to make it happen- if its important to you to have dinner with your roommate’s parents, or whatever the situation is. Otherwise, you end up looking really flaky, which is not a good look.

Jaya: Right, especially if it’s been your “fault” every time. Though if you’ve rescheduled a bunch because you just don’t want to do it, maybe just come out and say that.

Victoria: And if you are flaking to get out of doing it, then maybe just own up to it. But in general, just try to make things a priority the best you can, and stick to your RSVPs whenever they require action on the host’s part.

Jaya: Whether that’s cooking you Thanksgiving dinner, saving you a seat at a wedding, or telling a bartender how many people you’re bringing.

To The Man Who Upstreamed Me A Few Days Ago

To the man who upstreamed us in Queens a few nights ago:

I apologize that my fiance called you a “piece of shit asshole” when a cab pulled up to you before us, but let me explain. You see, despite your insistence that you wouldn’t/shouldn’t be paying attention to us, I must insist that in the future, you become more aware of those around you, especially when catching a cab.

Catching a cab in New York City is an art, and I could tell by your form that you were unpracticed and possibly new. You held your arm out for cabs that didn’t have their lights on, a telltale sign of a newbie. That’s ok. Everyone is new to hailing cabs at some point, but really, you should learn the rules before you attempt such a brazen move as an upstream.

Nathan W. Pyle of the popular NYC Basic Tips & Etiquette gif series puts the practice thusly:

However, I would argue that upstreaming someone for a cab–which, by walking to the corner ahead of us after we had been standing there attempting to hail a cab for about 10 minutes, you most certainly did–is more than just a “cheap way to win.” It is a cheap way to live. It means you assert yourself as more important than your neighbors and community. It is why New Yorkers hate gentrification so much: you’re saying you’re here, but you don’t care.

I’m sorry if this comes off as too serious, but I have a long and uncomfortable relationship to upstreaming. Sometimes, as a child, I’d be late getting out the door for school, ensuring that a ride on the M15 bus would make me late. So, not wanting me to get to school late, or to hail a cab by myself, my parents would put me in a cab to school. They both lived at busy intersections, and it was often a time of morning when lots of other people would be late for work/school if they did not catch a cab. But that did not seem to bother my dad; getting his only child to school on time was important. So he’d walk against traffic, getting ahead of those who had been waiting longer, and as I’d pass them by again from the comfort of the backseat of a Crown Victoria I’d slink down in shame, knowing that the only reason I was there and they were not was because I decided to take their civility for granted.

But back to you.

There are a few other circumstances that made your move so frustrating. Firstly, we were in Queens, and though that corner was probably the best bet for cabs in the area, it’s hardly a hot spot. Secondly, it looks like you were coming off of work at a film shoot that was taking place, given that you were saying goodbye to a lot of people still inside the giant trailers parked everywhere. This city already has a tenuous relationship with film crews, who often block our streets and sidewalks and tell us where we can and cannot walk, and you’re doing nothing to help their reputation with your behavior.

So what should you have done?

Firstly, you should have looked around. You should have paid attention to us. We were at the opposite corner from you, clearly waiting for a cab to come in the same direction. Once you noticed us you should have either walked to a different block to try your luck there, or come over and waited behind us. Yes, I know it was late at night and yes, I know you were “just trying to get home like everyone else,” but “everyone else” includes us, who were waiting to get home before you.

Being a New Yorker (though, I’m presuming, a new one) you may be thinking “why should I care? New Yorkers are rude people, so I have the right to be rude! Plus, that guy just called me an asshole!” It’s true, New Yorkers have a certain–and in my opinion, false–reputation for being rude. But these rude outbursts are not just for the sake of being mean to strangers. Any time a New Yorker yells at you, it is punishment for disrupting the balance of the city, a place where the needs of millions must be sorted out in an incredibly confined space. In order for everyone not to go nuts, we’ve developed a dance. You keep to the right of stairwells, and don’t stop in the middle of moving traffic (yes, sidewalks count as moving traffic). You define your space on the subway in order to maximize your comfort, yet not encroach on the personal space of those around you. You’re constantly balancing your needs versus the needs of others, putting yourself first when it counts, and taking one for the team when someone else needs it. The whole idea is the foundation of good etiquette.

So, when my fiance yelled at you, it was not because he likes yelling, but because you were disrupting the balance and must learn, lest you spend the rest of your life pissing off every New Yorker you come in contact with. If we had the time to have a full conversation we would have, but let’s face it, we were all trying to get home. Yes, there are some who are rude for no reason, but you’ll find those people across the globe. Perhaps you were shocked that he would call you out, but really, consider it a favor. Hopefully, you’ll remember this the next time you attempt to grab a cab from someone who has been patiently waiting for longer than you have.

There may come a day where you legitimately need to upstream someone. One day your wife may be in labor, or you’re late for a job interview at a cutthroat firm, where being one minute late would guarantee that you’d lose the opportunity. Go forth and upstream then, knowing that it’s necessary. But if it’s a Wednesday night at 11 pm and you see two tired and slightly cold people waiting on a corner, leaning into the road to look for cabs, I implore you to cross the street and wait behind them.

Best,

Jaya

Not such a great idea now, huh hotshot?

Not such a great idea now, huh hotshot?

Can I Ask Why My Parents Weren’t Invited to This Wedding?

Not Invited copy

Hey Ladies,

My question is actually sort of similar to the one y’all just posted about wedding invitation snubs, but a little different. Okay, so one of my oldest friends is getting married, and she initially told me at least one side of my family (Mom vs Dad) would be invited, but maybe not both because they are divorced. I told her they are fine in the same room, and by the end of that convo it sounded like both would be invited. Since both parents have known this friend basically her whole life, they were pretty much expecting to be invited. I received my invitation a month ago, but neither of my parents received one. Everyone is a bit disappointed and hurt, and I don’t know what to tell them. I should also note that my sister falls under both my mom and dad, so I assumed she would be invited one way or another. For all I know all of this is actually an oversight, but is rude me to ask my friend if that’s the case? Is there a way that I can find out what happened without stressing out my friend and making her feel bad? Also, should I ask about my sister specifically?

Sincerely,

Confused About Invitations

 

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

You can’t assume you will be invited to a wedding until you receive a save the date or an invitation. Note for brides and grooms- don’t go around willy nilly verbally saying you will invite people to your wedding until you are SURE that they will be on the guest list. It is also generally considered rude to ask about invitations.

OUR TAKE

Victoria: Ok, this question is basically “My friend said she was inviting my parents to her wedding and then didn’t.”

Jaya: Right. Oy. So, anyone getting married, do not say someone is invited unless they are 100% invited! Like, I’m sure she thought it was 100% and it turned out not to be.

Victoria: Yeah, I feel like this is a major rookie mistake.

Jaya: Haha “rookie.” There’s an etiquette league.

Victoria: Yes and we are the refs. But just to act like “of course they are invited” and then boom there’s no room, is a pretty big mistake. I asked the writer for a follow up and it turns out the bride ended up not being able to invite anyone’s parents.

Jaya: Oooh interesting. So yeah, this seems like she had an idea of what her wedding was gonna be like, was very vocal about it, and then circumstances made it not possible. Which happens.

Victoria: And I think thats fine mostly. I mean, do people really enjoy attending weddings of random people? Like your kids’ friends?

Jaya: I mean, it sounds like they weren’t random. And omg they do.

Victoria: You know about all this now!

Jaya: Everything I’ve heard from my fiance’s family friends is that they LOVE attending the weddings of their friends’ kids. I mean, weddings can be fun, I get it, and this seems like they’re super close family friends? It at least sound like the reader’s parents have their own relationship with the bride.

Victoria: Yeah probably.

Jaya: But anyway, as much as this sucks, there is not really anything to get upset about. Because even though her parents thought/assumed there was an invite coming, they were never formally invited.

Victoria: True! You just have to be gracious.

Jaya: You can get upset that you weren’t invited, but it’s not like the invitation was rescinded. And no one is obligated to invite you to their wedding. And while it’s not rude to ask about it, I’m not sure asking the bride about it is going to do any good.

Victoria: She says she ended up not even having to ask because it came up in conversation at the bachelorette party with everyone. But yeah, and I wouldn’t do it with someone I wasn’t so close to, but if you are a bridesmaid, I feel like you have a bit more leeway as long as you frame it as being curious, not accusatory.

Jaya: I think on all sides, don’t talk about things like invitations a lot unless you’re entirely sure you’re invited, or the other party is invited. Even if she made it seem “very likely,” that is not a guarantee. And don’t ever expect invitations to things like this. It is so personal. Unless you’re like, the groom’s mom or something. And even then maybe your son just wants to elope!

Victoria: LOL

Why Are Some People Sending Mass Facebook Messages Instead of Thank Yous?

thumbs-down1

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I recently (September) received a Facebook message from a couple whose wedding I attended in April, thanking all the recipients for coming and asking us to “keep an eye out” for cards. This is ridiculous, right? I mean, the wedding was five months ago!

Sincerely,

Where Have The Manners Gone?

 

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE: The Knot says “The rule is that you’re supposed to get thank-yous out for gifts received before the wedding within two weeks of their arrival; after the wedding, within a month after you return from the honeymoon,” to say nothing of Facebook.

 

OUR TAKE:

[Note: Jaya and Victoria read the original Facebook message]

Victoria: So, they are intending to send actual thank you cards.

Jaya: It sounds like it. Which makes this sort of not even necessary?

Victoria: If this wedding was in the spring and they are only now sending a mass Facebook message with cards to follow, then they are really pushing into rudeness territory. Although, I GUESS if you know you are already super late with TYs, maybe it does seem like a good idea to send around a message that they are coming soon- though I think it would have been better to be super apologetic, because definitely on the first read through this sounded like it was the only TY they were sending.

Jaya: Yeah, I think this could have been done with a little more recognition of how late this is. They also say they just got back from their honeymoon, so unless they were on their honeymoon for four months, maybe they should have said something sooner? Though who knows, maybe they had a lot of shit going on.

Victoria: I mean yeah, but sending thank you notes is part of the deal. Like, don’t eat at a restaurant if you can’t afford to tip- don’t invite more people to your wedding than you can thank in a reasonable amount of time. And if it was something catastrophic that happened to them, their guests probably already know about it.

Jaya: This reader also wrote to us about not getting thanks for another wedding that she did a lot for, which, we don’t even need to debate, that’s just wrong.

Victoria: Yeah.

Jaya: Both were destination weddings, so I think people need to remember that even if your wedding isn’t “traditional,” you still need to thank people.

Victoria: Yes! And even more so if they were really shelling out a ton of cash and time to attend. It takes a lot more effort to get to Hawaii or wherever than to pick something of the registry and drive to the next town over.

Jaya: Right. And maybe they didn’t get you a gift, but your guests still showed up and dedicated their time to you, and that deserves thanks. It’s interesting looking at this in light of the post I just wrote about thank you notes, because even if you debate using email v. writing, other rules still apply. You still have to thank people individually, and those thank yous must be timely.

Victoria: Yes and yes. And to be honest, major travel to attend your wedding is a gift unto itself and should probably be thanked, even if you don’t officially have to. It’s weird that we only think to thank people for tangible items they give us.

Jaya: I think it’s maybe a symptom of what you see in a lot of these wedding horror stories that come out on the internet, of people getting angry at guests for not giving them what they want, or not giving them enough money or something–The idea that you need to make back what you spent on a wedding, and that on the flip side, if your wedding was cheap and you didn’t get many gifts, you don’t need to thank anyone because somehow it wasn’t “real.”

Victoria: Yeah, which is just ridiculous. I mean, you wouldn’t expect to make back money you spent on a dinner party or whatever. I almost think that a lot of drama around weddings these days results from the couple throwing a party to celebrate themselves. I ALMOST think it works better the old way where the parents hosted it, and the couple was the guest of honor.

Jaya: I meaaaaaaaaan.

Victoria: LOL I totally don’t want to go back to that! But it has certainly driven up costs and expectations and all kinds of things that don’t need to be there.

Jaya: There’s nothing wrong with throwing a party to celebrate your own relationship, but the priority should be getting all your loved ones in a room and having fun, not getting stuff. I mean, that’s what I’ve had in my head while wedding planning.

Victoria: Yeah, but you guys are sensible people, and a lot of people aren’t sensible.

Jaya: Well they should fix that.

Victoria: By reading our site and listening to us tell them what to do.

 

How to be a Good Guest

By Frederick Daniel Hardy (scan of painting) [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

If you are a likeable person, sometimes you will be invited over to someone’s house for a meal, a party, or even for an overnight or multiple day visit. Here are some tips to ensure you will be invited back:

  • Always RSVP and honor your RSVP, aka don’t be a flake. Technically, etiquette says that you must accept all invitations as long as you don’t have a conflict. Personally I think having a date with your Netflix counts as a conflict. Also if you do have to cancel, try to make another plan.
  • Show up on time(ish). For a big, general party, this obviously isn’t as important. But for something like a dinner at someone’s house, you need to be pretty close to the time stated. THOUGH! You shouldn’t be there EXACTLY on time. Try aiming for 10-15 minutes late so you the hosts get an extra few minutes to finish setting up. For extremely close friends, you can be earlyish, but be prepared to help out.
  • Bring something! A hostess gift is a small present you bring to give the person throwing the party. Bottles of wine, boxes of chocolates, a jar of jam are all good ideas. Flowers aren’t recommended as much because the host/ess has to deal with them right then and there, but I think they are still nice. Hostess gifts are for the hostess, so don’t expect that they will pop open the wine then and there, they may have specific wines planned to complement a meal, though they often will. Obviously this type of advice is more for a dinner party, but even for a general house party, you should probably bring something, though in that case, I would expect for it to be eaten/drunk at the party.
  • Be good company! Part of your duty of being a guest is making a party a success. That means being pleasant to all the other guests (this is where the reciting times tables to dinner partners you can’t stand comes from in Jaya’s post about turning the tables– you want to give the impression you are having a good time) and doing your best to mingle.
  • If you really want to impress your hosts, send a quick thank you email/text/note(super fancy!) the next day to tell them how much fun you had.
  • If you are visiting for a couple of days, clean up after yourself, offer to help out with chores, perhaps cook or treat your hosts to a meal, and definitely send a thank you note! Also try to remember that fish and guests start to get old after 3 days, so try not to intrude on your friend’s hospitality too much. [INDIAN FISH STAYS GOOD IN THE FRIDGE FOR AT LEAST A WEEK, HOW DARE YOU-Jaya]
  • There is actually a DEBATE in the etiquette world about what to do with your sheets when you leave, making the bed vs stripping it. Just ask your host what they prefer!
  • If you are staying for a long time, try to do some things on your own. My mom once had a friend visit her in New York City and the guest spent the week on the couch watching TV. When she could have, you know, seen New York.