All About Engagement Parties

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I just got engaged and a friend asked me if we’re having an engagement party and what is that?

Sincerely,

Somewhat Unfamiliar with the Wedding Industrial Complex

Victoria: So an engagement party TRADITIONALLY was meant to announce your engagement. Your parents would throw it and it would be a surprise to all the guests.

Jaya: But now we have Facebook.

Victoria: Yeah, so, NOW, it’s a celebration of your engagement. And it’s totally optional and is just for fun. And people should know that they shouldn’t bring gifts, even though a lot of people might. It is totally not expected and you as the couple should not expect it.

Jaya: Yesssss. Though I mean people will absolutely bring presents.

Victoria : But I feel like it is my mission to stop people from feeling like they have to give engagement gifts as well as shower gifts and wedding gifts.

Jaya: I am into that mission.

Victoria: You heard it here first. But yeah, you can have any kind of party you want! You and Matt had a bunch of people come to a bar. And that was the best engagement party I’ve ever gone to!

Jaya: Uhh did I not tell you about the other engagement party thrown for us?

Victoria: Hahah yeah, you did.

Jaya: I mean, it was a fun time, but I’m still slightly worried. I feel like there is some relative who came to our engagement party who probably assumed we expected presents and now thinks we’re selfish for throwing that party when we didn’t even expect anything!!

Victoria : But you didn’t throw that party! It was thrown in your honor and thus you are absolved from any blame.

Jaya: Okay, but how much do we really think that now?

Victoria: I do!!!

Jaya: You are the only one.

Victoria: I mean, its pretty clear who is throwing the party, no?

Jaya: I feel like most other people expect the bride and groom to be the ones orchestrating things. Yeah sure my grandma threw it, but they probably expect that we requested it be thrown. The way that brides ask for showers and bachelorette parties.

Victoria: Ugh, yeah, well, one, brides should stop doing that because its obnoxious. And two, I can 100% tell a parent decided event vs a couple decided event. Our other friends’ parents threw them a backyard BBQ engagement party that was great. And definitely felt like a parent orchestrated event. And I mean, are that many people really ASKING for an engagement party?

Jaya: I’m honestly not sure, but I feel like it’s really hard to tell. I don’t know if all these “couples making gift grabs” stories are real or just the media harping on a couple instances.

Victoria: I THINK, given my generous nature, that it’s a few bad apples

Jaya: Yeah

Victoria: Like your “night before” party was all you guys, and pretty obviously so.

Jaya: Yeah, it’s just so funny to me. I think pretty much everyone accepts that this is exhausting to have this many parties, and yet we still do it.

Victoria: It’s silly! If you don’t want to do it, don’t (unless it is forced upon you). If our writer doesn’t want one, I would say to just tell those people “we aren’t having one.” But yeah, if you DO want to have one (and actually I can understand this more than the array of showers because it is early on when you are still SUPER PUMPED), you can have basically anything you want! I would say that it should occur somewhere in the first few months that you are engaged though.

Jaya: Yeah! I feel like if anything, an engagement party is way more fun, and then it involves both of you. Definitely agree about being on the sooner side.

Victoria: Like within 3-4 months if you are going to be engaged for a year+ or like 1-2 months if you are going to be engaged less than a year. Oh and one thing to point out, if it’s going to be a formal engagement party with parents and family and all of that, it should be HOSTED by someone, not just all the guests pay for themselves. (Your informal, lets get together at a bar thing is fine if that’s a normal thing in your social circle.) But the thing I have been seeing complained about a lot lately is people being invited to engagement parties/showers etc, bringing gifts, and then being told, okay, your share is $50.

Jaya: What?!?! Omg ew.

Victoria: Yes, right? And even if it’s upfront, its not really okay.

Jaya: Like okay, the only time I could mayyyyybe see something like that happening…Wait no, I can’t because if you decide to do an activity like camping or a trip or going to an amusement park that requires people to pay, then you recognize that that is your gift. And that’s more of a bachelor/ette party thing anyway.

Victoria: Yeah, and like, a shower can be split among several hostesses (which is common!) but they should be providing all the food and drinks and decorations and stuff. I mean, I can see a group of friends saying, let’s take the bride out to tea and call that her shower and we will all split it. And that seems fine but it’s more of a group decision than this situation where someone is deciding, “I am going to throw a party, but oh no, I can’t afford the party I want to throw. I know! I will just ask everyone to give me $20! and then we will be set!”

Thank You Note Poll Follow Up

Notes

Results!!!

Thank you for all your responses to our poll about who writes wedding thank you notes. It was quite illuminating!

Since it’s us, we had a great chat about it and the implications of the results.

 

Jaya: First off, we can just cast away these two couples who didn’t write thank you notes?

Victoria: Yes, who DOES THAT! Monsters! (If our one groom who wrote the most notes wants to volunteer himself, we can give him a prize!)

Jaya: Ugh, no thank you notes is the worst. Unless they didn’t get gifts?

Victoria: They got gifts, I can guarantee it.

Jaya: Hahaha. Okay, so what I think is interesting is all the women who justified why they wrote all the notes. There were so many reasons.

Victoria: They did! Well, the ones who left us comments in various places.

Jaya: Yeah. But it was either they had better handwriting, they had more time, they had the address list or the gift list, etc. All reasonable but like…still not reasons, to me. Your husband can read a gift list.

Victoria: Yeah, the handwriting especially is a good example of learned helplessness. Do not stand for it!!!!!

Jaya: Oh man I have shitty handwriting, you just take more time with it. Yes do not stand for that!

Victoria: Consider it an opportunity to practice.

Jaya: You will be writing more thank you notes as a couple. I mean, I will admit that now when it’s just one note at a time, I tend to write it, because I tend to think of it. Next time, remind me to be like “we need to write a thank you note. You do it.”

Victoria: Haha I will! But like, writing 150 thank you notes or whatever, is a LOT of work. And, speaking in generalizations, generally the bride has also done the most work in planning the wedding. So maybe grooms should be writing most of the thank you notes to balance that–kind of a like, you cook and I’ll do the dishes sort of swap.

Jaya: I guess the reason I understand most is impatience. Either I can remind someone else 8 times to write a thank you note, or I can just do it myself.

Victoria: Yeah, ugh. It’s so frustrating- this thing that women have the burden of overseeing that things get done because everyone will be mad at THEM if they haven’t. And when you have to nag and nag it just becomes easier to do it yourself. Until you are doing it ALL yourself.

Jaya: And I did find it interesting that of the same sex couples, all of them split them.

Victoria: Me too!!!! That’s super great. Love them.

Jaya: Learn from themmmmm. C’mon straight men.

Victoria: Seriously. Although, apparently in 55% of couples, they split them equally. Which is good if it is true.

Jaya: Yay! Yes.

Victoria: But I kind of don’t trust it–I imagine there is a degree of “oh we split it, he wrote 20 and she wrote 80.”

Jaya: A few people commented that in splitting it, they wrote notes to “their” list. Which I slightly balk at because you’re married, it’s your collective list now. I believe we did an equal split, and we had a spreadsheet. I started at the bottom, he started at the top, and when I got halfway I stopped. I did it faster though. So for a general tip, make a spreadsheet of all your guests, what they got you, and whether you’ve written a note.

Victoria: I think it could also be a fun date night–like get some takeout, have some wine, write some notes. (Actually I have an upcoming post about how to make writing TYNs fun).

Jaya: It’s just…it’s not that hard. For about two weeks after we got home from our honeymoon I wrote five a night.

Victoria: Yeah! And if you write them as the gifts come in (which you should!) it’s even easier.

Jaya: Oh yeah! We did that, we just still had the bulk afterward.

Victoria: Ahhh, interesting. I always imagine that most people send their gifts a month or two before the wedding (since that it what I do, lol).

Jaya: Lots of checks. Lots of people who send gifts and then bring checks.

Victoria: WHATTTT?!?!?!

Jaya: Yeah that was ridiculous.

Victoria: Brb gotta go get married.

Jaya: So yeah, I’d say a good 2/3 of the gifts came on the day.

Victoria: WOW my WASPy expectations are EXPLODED.

Jaya: Hahahaha but it’s just like, you take your trip, you come back. you spend like 20 minutes a night each doing this.

Victoria: Totally, and like, do them together.

Jaya: Yes, make dinner, and sit down and do it while you eat or something.

Victoria: I like doing unpleasant things together so that you KNOW you are spending equal time on them.

Jaya: Yes! Also, even though I don’t like the idea of his and hers lists, I do think being the one to write notes to each other’s family is nice. I think I wrote all the notes to his aunts and cousins and family friends, and he did them to mine, even though yes, every note is from both of you.

Victoria: Awww yeah. I like that, because then especially for the bride’s family, they know he is a decent person. Where, hopefully, with his family he has always been sending thank you notes so they already know he is a decent person.

Jaya: Yeah. I have heard, elsewhere, the argument that if it’s important to just one person in the couple, it’s their responsibility. And I just want to go on the record that I wholly disagree. I’m pretty sure I was more concerned about thank you notes. But the point is we’re married and it’s a joint responsibility now.

Victoria: Yeah! And like, there are probably going to be tons of important stuff that comes up in your marriage that is more important to one person but needs to be split. I always say this about chores–like yeah, maybe one person has a higher level of cleanliness, but unless you want to live in a pigsty, the messier person needs to make an effort to- not to mention that dirt and stuff can actually permanently damage your home if it isn’t cleaned regularly and then you lose resale value or your deposit and that’s bad for your whole family. And if you can’t manage to write a few thank you notes, how reliable are you going to be about your kids/pets/other important but boring chores?

Jaya: Hahahaha yes.

Victoria: Not to say that your brand new marriage is going to fail if one person refuses to help write thank you notes, but it seems like a thing you might want to notice and nip it in the bud. And accept no excuses!

Jaya: Yes! God sometimes I have no patience with people. Just do it. Just shut up and do it.

Apartment Showing Etiquette

Hey Ladies,

Got a good question for the website. Tis the appropriate season…what’re you supposed to do while the landlord/real estate agent shows your apartment? Just got word of mine being shown from 6:30-8pm tomorrow night which is normally when I get back to my apartment, make dinner, veg out in front of the TV.

Sincerely,

Open House Blues

 

Jaya: Firstly, I think most rental contracts have something about this.

Victoria: Do they? Man, I need to read mine.

Jaya: Like how much notice you should be given when someone is going to show your place. Like, they can’t just barge in on you.

Victoria: Oh right. Yeah, it’s something like 24 hours, right?

Jaya: Probably, I mean I’m sure it’s different everywhere but I feel like this is a thing.

Victoria: Yeah, it definitely is.

Jaya: Anyway, my theory is that if you can make yourself scarce, do so, but don’t bend yourself backwards.

Victoria: If its just a quick apartment viewing it probably won’t be more than like 10-15 mins, so you can always go for a nice stroll around the block.

Jaya: Absolutely. But right, if it’s a blizzard out, don’t worry about feeling like you need to leave. Just maybe confine yourself to one room and don’t be naked.

Victoria: Haha oh right. Yeah, and if they are scheduling some kind of open house or something, I do think its probably better to just plan on being out. But I would hope they would give you decent notice for that.

I remember when I was a kid we were trying to sell our house and it was on the market for a few months and there were pretty regular open houses- my parents would take us to the movies.

Jaya: See that’s pretty cool. Get your landlord to pay for movie tickets.

Victoria: Hahaha, yeah, right!

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Talking About Height Differences

It’s a metaphor, get it? [Via Wikimedia Commons]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

So I can’t sleep and  for some reason I thought of the most random etiquette question. I know it’s rude to walk in between people having a conversation without saying “excuse me” or whatever ( like people at work having convo in the narrow hallway or something), but what if I’m short enough to walk between the people without obstructing their line of vision between one another? Similarly, it’s totally rude for people to have conversations over my head right? 

Sincerely,

Very Short

 

Official Etiquette:

There doesn’t seem to be much out there addressing this specific sort of question, but of course talking over a shorter person’s head is rude!

 

Our Take:

Jaya: When you are short and passing between two people having a conversation, basically you want to give them a heads up, not because you can’t slip between them, but because they might be having a private conversation and it’d be rude of you just to zoom in between them.

Victoria: Yeah, plus they might notice you and be like, omg so weird.

Jaya: And like, among friends, obviously tall people should be open to including everyone in a conversation, just like anyone else. It’d be just as rude if two short people shut out a tall person.

Victoria: Yeah, and also like, if they are teasing you, then its teasing, and you have to decide if you like that kind of teasing or won’t tolerate it. I’ve had friends do that to me and I don’t care, because they were just being silly. But if it really bothers you or it’s excessive, just tell them! They are your friends!