Category Archives: Advice

Can I Politely Elope?

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vegaswedding

Actual dream wedding

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

With all the marriage etiquette posts lately, I’m wondering if you would mind doing one on “how to elope without alienating all of your friends and family”. We’ve been discussing eloping for several reasons. The two biggest reasons are 1) money, and 2) this is a partnership between the two of us, and doesn’t really need outside validation. Neither of us have ever really been fans of the idea of marriage, until we found each other, and don’t really care about all of the ceremony and traditional trappings.

Would an elopement with following reception/party do? I don’t want to break my mother’s heart, but I also don’t want to do a song and dance for a crowd. Neither of us is traditional, but do have loving families. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Runaway Bride

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE:
Miss Manners errs on the side of not upsetting people- one letter writer wrote in that her mother would be devastated if she eloped and Miss Manners kind of calls the bride selfish. In another column Miss Manners discourages elopement because, according to her, people are more likely to regret it, as ceremony is actually fairly important to humans. She does consider post-elopement receptions to be appropriate, but declares you must skip showers and bachelor/ette parties (which makes sense, because if the point of elopement is avoiding all the fuss, it’s sorta weird to come back and insist on the fuss). Emily Post Institute says that you want to be careful of hurting the feelings of your parents/grandparents etc before you elope. Parties afterwards are a great compromise, but as the attendees were not invited to your actual wedding, you should not register for gifts.

Amy Vanderbilt says, “Often after an elopement, the bride’s parents give a party to celebrate the marriage. It can be as simple or elaborate as they and the couple want it to be. It’s up to them whether to have a receiving line or wedding cake.”

OUR TAKE:

Jaya: So at least it sounds like she’s not eloping because she hates her family. Though in some ways that makes this harder. You can’t just be like, “fuck you dad I’m doing what I want!”

Victoria: Yeah! It seems like she doesn’t want to hurt anyone, but from what I’ve read, most parents do seem to be hurt when their kids elope. I think if she were up for it, a very small ceremony including the parents might be a nice, cheap compromise. But of course, she doesn’t have to.

Jaya: Or I think if she’s worried about breaking it to the parents, explain it exactly like she did to us! That, while they love their families, they don’t want to spend the money and don’t want the ceremony, etc. That seems pretty easy to understand, but yes, prepare for pleading.

Victoria: If you are just getting up in front of a county clerk, it seems like it wouldn’t hurt for your parents to tag along. But I get that not everyone feels that way.

Jaya: True, you do need witnesses!

Victoria: If you are going to do it, a party afterwards is still totally fine! Though, as you’ve mentioned through your wedding planning, the reception really takes up most of the money/stress. But if you plan a simple dinner yourself, you can be more in control.

Jaya: This is where I think you can use it as compromise with the family too. Say you’re going to elope, but they can maybe have a bigger hand in planning the party. I mean, depends on the family. If your family is the type to rent a ballroom for 500 people maybe not.

Victoria: Yeah, and she says that she wants to avoid the song and dance for a crowd. I mean, you could even do a thing at city hall with immediate family with dinner at a restaurant following, and then you are DONE, no crowds.

Jaya: Yes! I have a friend who got married on the Staten Island ferry and then had dinner at a restaurant after.

Victoria: It’s interesting too- trying to determine if people are really interested in eloping and avoiding all the fuss,or if they want to pre-marry and then have a huge wedding after (not this writer, but in general).

Jaya: Definitely. It sounds like two things here. She wants to avoid the hoopla (which I totally get) but also takes a more philosophical stance that “outside validation” is not something they value (also totally understandable).

Victoria: Yes. So for her, to answer her question: yes you can elope and follow up with a party (this is actually super traditional!) and if you just want to avoid the fuss and still make your parents happy, just invite them along to your tiny ceremony at City Hall or wherever. Let’s talk about the rest of it, all the extra parties and gifts and stuff!

Jaya:  So, if your reasoning is avoiding fuss, it’s sorta strange to say that and then want registries/showers/etc.

Victoria: Super weird. After all, you can’t invite people to the shower who aren’t invited to the wedding, so if you aren’t inviting people to the wedding… Although, with registries and gifts and stuff, even though people don’t have to give them to you, there’s probably a good chance they will still want to? So maybe make a small registry or have some ideas if someone asks?

Jaya: It sounds like their community supports their relationship, so maybe would want to give gifts even if there isn’t a huge wedding.

Victoria: Yes

Jaya: This question I think gets to the heart of a lot of battles within wedding etiquette, which is essentially, who is the wedding for? On that post we were quoted on at Yahoo!, all the comments immediately went from “how selfish are these women” (true) to “weddings aren’t about you, they’re about your family and your community” (questionable).

Victoria: I saw something one place where it was a mom saying that she had put all these years in raising her daughter and then wasn’t allowed to see her get married. Which, I guess is someones right, to decide to get married alone, but think how hurt you would be if your mom decided she didn’t want to attend your wedding. It goes both ways.

Jaya: Definitely. it hits this strange center, where the marriage is about the couple and the wedding is about community, but the marriage is at the center of the wedding. Anyway, I’m all for the couple doing what they want for themselves. No one has a right to force you into a ceremony, especially when it really is about the couple, not the community. However, they may have hurt feelings, so just be aware and be nice.

Victoria: You can’t do things in a vacuum either. If your mom cares that much and is hurt that much by your decision, you might have irreparably hurt your relationship with her.

Jaya: Exactly. Hopefully that’s not the case, but you have to balance what you each want with how much you each want it. I think a nice, sit down convo with the immediate family is needed. Remind them you love them, and that this isn’t a rejection of them, but that this is the way you want to honor the relationship you’ve made. And that you want to throw a party after BECAUSE you want to include people.

Victoria: Part of being an adult and making these adult decisions is being aware of how your actions affect others and might affect your future.

Jaya: Oh wait also, part of what she asked about is that they were eloping for money reasons, which I also think is fair. Thoughts on that?

Victoria: Yeah, totally fair! But that’s even less reason to not let a few people tag along if it makes them (and the couple!) happy.

Jaya: True! You’re not paying anyone to follow you to city hall for an afternoon if they want. So maybe keep those arguments separate. Because sometimes enthusiastic families will counter “we don’t want to waste money” with “we will pay for it!” and then you have to backtrack and explain that it’s not really the money, it’s the principle.

Victoria: I would advise to just really think through all your reasons and all your options, because a big wedding with a poofy dress and going to the courthouse by yourselves at lunch are not the only options. Not to say that people don’t know their own minds and they haven’t already thought it through, but a lot of these do-over weddings I see are people who were like, “oh let’s elope and avoid all the fuss.” And then immediately regret it, and then it becomes a whole other etiquette issue for another day.

Spoiler Alert! Are Spoilers Rude?

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The ultimate spoiler. [Via xkcd.com]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

What is the etiquette on posting TV spoilers on social media? I thought you had to wait until at least the following day? A guy in my feed posted something about Game of Thrones before I got a chance to watch it that same night!

Sincerely,

Totally Spoiled

 

Official Etiquette:

Both Miss Manners and the Emily Post Institute say that the onus is on you to avoid spoilers.

Our Take:

Victoria:  Okay, so spoilers. I have people on my Facebook wall threatening to de-friend other people for posting Game of Thrones spoilers. This is serious business! And should be an interesting discussion because I HATE spoilers and I know you don’t mind them. I think definitely you shouldn’t post anything at all until the episode has aired in all markets (for tv).

Jaya: Definitely, and also I like the point that sometimes popular shows air at the same time. Some people say that if you “really care” you’ll watch the show as soon as it airs, but maybe you wanted to watch two shows and DVR’ed one, and you think you’re safe if you watch it immediately after!

Victoria:  Hahah just avoid the internet entirely until you’ve watched everything. Ugh no. Personally, I don’t think you should post a spoiler in any kind of headline, ever.

Jaya:  Definitely not in headlines, but that’s more of a journalistic integrity thing. I do think some of this is self preservation. The chances of spoilers happening on social media is so high for really popular shows, so if not being spoiled is important to you, maybe avoid it. Though I don’t want to victim blame here…

Victoria:  Like it’s fine to say OMG GAME OF THRONES TONIGHT WAS INSANE but not like, this THING happened.

Jaya:  And even writing SPOILER ALERT: SO AND SO DIED is bad.  You read those words at the same time, that spoiler alert does nothing.

Victoria:  Yeah! I hate sneaky spoilers too- I once had something spoiled for me in a discussion of something completely unrelated.

Jaya:  Within a reasonable time frame, or way after the fact?

Victoria:  Waaaay after, but still.

Jaya:  I mean, I had lots of stuff in The Wire spoiled for me, but it aired 10 years ago, I should not expect people to not talk about it.

Victoria:  Yeah, I agree. And I mean, on the internet, its one thing. But I think if you are talking about something with actual people in person, it’s polite to ask “have you seen this, are you going to see it, do you mind if I talk about spoilers?”

Jaya:  I agree to an extent, but I do think there is a statue of limitations. Everyone is busy and may not have gotten around to consuming a show or movie or book they want to consume, but do you have to do it for everything? I haven’t seen Godfather II, should people check with me before discussing a famous movie that came out 40 years ago? If I’m discussing a mutually-enjoyed TV show with a friend, do I have to announce to everyone within earshot that they may want to move to another room?

Victoria:  I think that it’s fine to talk about old stuff in a general way, but you should still try to avoid real “spoilers” in the sense of things that actually spoil a big twist or surprise. And honestly, I think people do this pretty naturally.

Jaya:  True. I guess part of this conversation taps into my dislike of the idea of “spoilers” in general. I tend to think that a good story should not rely on a “twist,” and that the journey of an art form, not finding out what happens at the end, is what matters. Even if you know every detail of what happens in a story, you do not know how that story is told, and that is the true joy of art. But I get that not everyone thinks that way.

Victoria:  I see your point with that.

Jaya:  And I make an effort not to reveal anything that isn’t general cultural knowledge. But I’m sorry but if you don’t know the twist of The Sixth Sense you’ll just have to know it now.

Victoria:  Yeah, I guess some major things are such a cliche at this point that they aren’t even really spoilers. But man, if you are talking about a movie and someone says “I haven’t seen that yet” and you deliberately spoil it- that’s just not cool,

Jaya:  Oh yeah! That’s a dick move. But if you’re talking about Citizen Kane, and reveal something, and a person shouts “UGH way to go dude, I haven’t seen it,” I don’t think that’s my fault.  I think the longer a certain piece of media has been out, the more it’s on you to be vigilant about not getting spoiled.

Victoria:  And I personally am pretty good at catching them- I saw The Wire without any spoilers! Because I was hyper vigilant about not reading ANYTHING about The Wire, or like, Baltimore in general.

Jaya:  Hahaha, yeah! Like if you know you’re gonna watch The Wire, and someone brings it up, it may be your job to remove yourself from the conversation. Obviously this is harder on social media when things just pop up, but also maybe have a sense of humor. There was a Portlandia sketch that “spoiled” one Wire point for me. Oh well, it’s been 10 years, I’ve had enough time. And it’s not like knowing it made the show worse.

Victoria:  Yeah, I have actually sought out things after they were spoiled because it made them sound more interesting than I had originally thought!

Jaya:  Hahahaha, yeah! that’s the flip side of spoilers! But yeah, with social media, definitely not that day for TV shows, or probably the first week or two a movie is out. Books I don’t know.

Victoria: Yeah, books, maybe a few months?

Jaya:  Also I feel like books are so complicated that if you say “omg I can’t believe Anna didn’t get the abortion in This Novel” I’d be like okay, I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.

Victoria:  Yeah, the only major book spoiler i can think of is the big Harry Potter one.

Jaya:  You mean that Ron is the last horcrux?

Victoria:  Basically.

Where Did The Grocery Store Baggers Go, And What Do We Do Now?

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Is the low priced, delicious food really worth the Trader Joe’s lines? (The answer is yes.) [ViaFlickr user scardeykat]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

 While shopping at Trader Joe’s the other day, I observed a group of customers who were standing at the cash register and letting the cashier bag all the groceries in the customer’s reusable bags when they could have easily been helping. It took so much longer this way and there was a long line (this being a Trader Joe’s in New York City). What is the correct etiquette here? Are cashiers expected to bag all groceries or should the customer help out?

Sincerely,

Tired of Waiting in Line

Official Etiquette:

There is no real official etiquette here as the abundance of reusable bags and the lack of designated baggers at grocery stores are both fairly recent occurrences. So I went straight to the source and called Trader Joe’s customer relations. They say that the cashier should absolutely bag the groceries in reusable bags the same they would bag them in their own paper bags. They do mention that, of course, many customers prefer to do their own bagging and that is fine too. I’ve also spoken to Target’s customer service on this question, and they also say that a cashier shouldn’t refuse to put the customer’s items in their own reusable bag.

Our Take:

Jaya: Interesting research, Victoria! I have noticed a decline in the number of specific bag people. Which I think makes this harder, because either way the line gets held up longer than people are used to.

Victoria:  Oh for sure, I haven’t seen a “bagger” in ages. Although, maybe its more of a suburban thing? The nice Safeways near my parents old house always had them and when I was in Savannah for Christmas, the big grocery store (a Kroger, maybe?) that we went to had them. I’ve never seen them in the city, but i have seen them recently outside the city. Maybe its the higher rents here.

Jaya:  I mean, I grew up with them at Gristedes in New York City. And I live near two pretty large grocery stores. I think it’s more of an economy thing. Why hire two people when just the cashier can do it?  I only noticed them not in the city in the past five years or so. However, what I did notice in research, is a lot of people getting frustrated at cashiers not bagging their groceries with the bags they brought, or then getting frustrated when it took too long. You can’t have both! Or! People getting frustrated when it isn’t done to their liking, which happens no matter what bags you use.

Victoria:  Yeah. I mean, I guess I think the most polite way to do it is get started on the bagging while the cashier is still scanning and then let them finish while you are swiping your credit card and everything.

Jaya:  That makes sense, and also I saw lots of cashiers writing on forums that people should put their bags in front of their groceries, so everything is open and ready.

Victoria:  Yeah! I always put the bags on the conveyer belt first and then try to put something heavy in them to make them stand up. Although, usually they still fall down.

Jaya:  Yeah, here’s the thing with this though. Yes, it’s policy and ideally this person is getting paid to bag your groceries and do this. But if the line is long and it’s something you have the ability to help out with, you probably should.

Victoria:  Totally! And maybe grocery stores should put in a little thingy that makes the reusable bags stand up properly.

Jaya:  Haha though it depends on the bags. I usually just bring old tote bags.

Victoria:  I mean, yeah for sure. But if they sell their own bags, they should have one that fits those bags, you know?

Jaya: I can’t stand people who could easily help with bagging, but let the cashier do it alone, and then complain about things taking a long time.

Victoria:  Hahah yeah! Although, our good friend who works at a grocery store chimed in and said he’s pretty fast at doing it, so he almost prefers to just get it done.

Jaya:  Yeah. ETIQUETTE TIP: Read situations correctly. You know, just be great at judging the tone of every interaction. Easy Peasy.

Victoria:  I see your sarcasm there. Also a thing: some corporate chains actually have timers in the cashiers machine that times how long a transaction takes! And like, they get in trouble if they take too long. Which is sad and terrible, but also makes me feel like I have to hurry hurry hurry to bag up my stuff and get out of their way.

Jaya:  Ooh that’s rough.

Victoria:  Oh! And then when we lived in Rome- its actually 100% the status quo that the customer bags the groceries and each checkout lane has two channels so the cashier funnels your stuff down one channel and you bag it up while they are funneling the next person’s stuff down the other channel. And then you get yelled at in Italian for not having exact change, so maybe that’s not the nicest system either.

Jaya:  In general I think flexibility is nice. If grocery stores are not going to hire people to bag groceries, it makes it a bit more complicated for everyone involved. Like, I can see it both ways. I can see that maybe a cashier wants to do the bagging and get it over with. Or I can see that if you have a 10 person long line you maybe hope the customer can bag their own stuff so you can get through it.

Victoria:  So basically, try to help out if you can and move things along, and if you are waiting in line, maybe be patient that someone isn’t doing their own bagging because maybe they can’t for some reason.

Jaya:  Or maybe they’re used to shopping at places where it’s done for them, because apparently everywhere has a different policy/different idea of whose job it is.

Victoria:  Yeah, I think that’s a source of a lot of the confusion. And even at the same store, some cashiers will do it and some won’t

Jaya:  Definitely, so I know sometimes I’ve been standing there like an idiot not bagging things, not because I wouldn’t, just because I was used to having it done at that specific grocery store. Also, in general, long lines at grocery stores suck but it is a known quantity. I find this super interesting. I think we’re at this very fascinating point in grocery store history where people are used to baggers but stores have stopped hiring them. “Fascinating point in grocery store history” like that’s a thing (ed: it is a thing!!).

Victoria:  Haha, and we didn’t even TALK about self checkouts. Let’s save it and shopping carts for another day!

How Do I Make It Clear This Is A “Friends Only” Easter Dinner?

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Unexpected guests are never fun [Via]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

 I’m writing because I recently had a problem come up multiple times and I’m not sure if I’m the person practicing bad etiquette or if my friends are. Basically, every year I throw a small Easter dinner. It is small because my apartment can only seat 8 people maximum. Generally I invite my best lady friends, I make them Easter baskets, and I serve a 4 course meal with wine. The majority of people invited are repeats year-to-year.

This year I sent out a paperless post invitation to seven of my lady friends. 3 of them came back to me asking if they could bring their significant others. All the ladies who asked have been to dinner parties at my house and know how squished my apartment is. Also, the invitation showed that the RSVP only counted for one person, and there was no option to invite others.

I feel like this puts me between a rock and a hard place because if I say no I seem insensitive for not understanding that they no longer can function unattached to another person. If I say yes and one of my originally invited friends who hasn’t responded yet then responds that she can come, I have to tell her that her space was taken. Further, an extension of their request to bring a +1 is that they’re also asking me to spend a decent amount of money and make an Easter basket for someone who I don’t know well at all.

Is it ok for me to say no, or should I have assumed that if I invite a friend with a boyfriend or girlfriend to something I must always invite the +1? If it’s okay to say no, do you have suggestions for how to do this as politely as possible?

Sincerely,

SO Confused

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

Many of the etiquette tips we’ve found focus on how only those whose names are on the invitation are invited, and it is rude to ask to bring a date, even if it is a long-term significant other. Amy Vanderbilt wrote, “Invitations to company dinners are not lightly treated. The hostess obviously is going to considerable trouble, especially if she has little or no help.  Guests should not disappoint her at the last minute without a believable excuse such as illness. Neither should they ask to bring another guest, with the possible exception of another single man for whom most hostesses have need.” The Emily Post Institute says, “It is not incorrect for someone to ask if s/he can bring a friend to a large party, although no one should do this when the invitation is for a small dinner party.”

However, The Institute also says, “You are obligated to invite spouses, fiances or fiancees, and significant others of your guests. If your friend has a long-standing relationship/is living with her ‘special person’ then he really needs to be invited. If not, and he is someone she is dating, it is not a requirement that he be included.”

OUR TAKE

Victoria: This was exactly my problem recently! TECHNICALLY if someone has a husband, fiance, or live in partner, they MUST be included on ALL invitations. BUT I think if you make it like a specific ladies only event, that’s fine and they don’t need to be invited.

Jaya: Really? Partners need to be invited even to small dinners and friends-only nights out? Wow, I’ve been an asshole.

Victoria: The rule was intended for dinner parties, but I imagine it extends further. But I think it’s fine to say “Ladies only, no SOs.”

Jaya: Definitely. Though I’m wary of saying “Ladies only” because what if a girlfriend of yours is dating another lady? These boundaries get tricky.

Victoria: Oooh yes. But maybe you have your “girls” and she has her “girls” and you make it work anyway- commenters weigh in!

Jaya:  I think there are two ways to look at this. 1. You have your group of friends, and you have a small apartment, and it’s rude to ask for +1s (though not rude to ask for honest clarification about invitations), and really that’s that.

Victoria:  These people are being so so rude by asking if they can bring someone for something like a dinner party. Although, I suppose at this age, people who are used to throwing BYOB parties have no concept of how expensive it is to throw a nice dinner party (not to mention all the planning and cooking!!!), so it’s really asking a lot to bring a date.

Jaya: Exactly, this isn’t like meeting up at a restaurant. It requires a lot of work on the host’s part. The LW can absolutely say that it will be a just-friends occasion. You can also say you have no space, but that also leaves it open that if someone declines, you will have space for someone else’s date, which doesn’t seem like what the LW wants to happen.

Victoria: Yes, I think for the LW, my advice would be to make it clear when issuing invitations that you are hosting a dinner for “the girls” or “our group” and if asked if someone can bring a plus one, just say, I’m sorry, it’s just going to be us this time and make a little joke about limited space.

Jaya: I do want to bring up something else though. I sense some hostility when the LW writes that her friends “no longer can function unattached to another person.” What a way to talk about your friends! Most of the time, wanting to bring an SO to an occasion is not a case of not being able to function alone, but wanting to introduce your SO, someone you care about, to your friends, other people you care about. You don’t have to all hang out together all the time, but these are all people in your life that you spend a lot of time with, and it’s nice to have them not be strangers.

Victoria: Yes,  lowering the hostility is good (though as a single person, I can understand the annoyance of a tag along SO) because they might end up becoming a good friend too, and your friends are probably coming from a good place. This does not mean that you have to invite anybody’s flavor of the week to your parties, though if you are inviting tons of other couples, I can see where someone would be hurt that you wouldn’t invite their significant other, no matter how insignificant you might deem them to be. And in this case, it sounds like the LW is mostly dealing with people in short term relationships. So she is pretty much in the clear in that regard.

Jaya: True, and there is a big difference between a “flavor of the week” and having been seriously dating someone for 4-5 months and wanting to introduce them to your close friends and not being able to go to any party without your significant other. The LW will just have to gauge what is the case.

So maybe her friends thought that this would be a lovely, convenient opportunity for everyone to get friendlier. Of course, for LW this is not the right time, because her apartment is small and she has a set guest list. But, in the spirit of what her friends are probably trying to achieve, I’d suggest she bring up another time where bringing SOs is proper. You can say “You know, I wanted to keep Easter dinner as a just us thing, but next week we should all go out for dinner because I’d love to get to know Charlie better” or “I really want to keep this Easter tradition of dinners with our great group of friends, but let’s plan another party soon for everyone.” Something like that.

 

Do I Really Have to Buy This Bride All These Gifts?

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What you don’t realize is that all these gifts are from one person. [Via Flickr user frostnova]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I am in this girl’s wedding in May. I assume I get her a wedding gift. I’ve also been invited to her bridal shower, that says bring a gift, and her bachelorette party, that says bring a gift. I assume that the bachelorette gift is suppose to be a gag gift, but I’m not sure. How many freaking gifts am I actually expected to get this girl? I cannot afford to get her 3 gifts.

Sincerely,

Gift Fatigued

 

Official Etiquette:

Technically, yes, you should give a gift for both the wedding and the shower. But they can be small gifts! Bachelorette parties should not have a gift element unless they take the place of a shower. Guests should not be invited to more than one shower and if they are, they don’t have to give a gift the second time.

 

Our Take:

Jaya: How rude to demand gifts!!!!

Victoria:  Hahahahahahahahaha, this is a crazy situation and exactly what is meant when people talk about gift fatigue. Though, I assume no one is really demanding gifts so much as inviting her to parties that often have gifts. Except the bachelorette, omg, bachelor/ette parties should not be gift giving occasions.

Jaya: Yeah, seriously.

Victoria:  I wonder who is organizing the shower/bachelorette. If they are the same person, you could maybe talk to them.

Jaya:  Shower is bride’s sister, bachelorette is MOH (ED: maid of honor, fyi). The letter writer thinks the bride would understand if she was just like, hey, I’m broke and already spending money on hotels and dresses and stuff, which is definitely what I think they should do. Apparently the bachelorette is in another town so she had to pay for hotels for that weekend too.

Victoria:  Omg, I would just not go. I mean seriously, wtf kind of wedding is this?

Jaya:  Ridiculous, apparently the bride is totally normal and understanding, but her family is a little more difficult.

Victoria:  Hmm, yeah, I would talk to the bride. I mean, I would be MORTIFIED if I was getting married and found out these people were planning these kinds of things and demanding gifts from people.

Jaya:  Seriously.

Victoria:  So the bride could theoretically talk to the MOH and get rid of gifts for the bachelorette entirely and then I would get something small for the shower. And something small again for the wedding.

Jaya:  Or maybe split a gift with some other people, like we have done.

Victoria:  Yeah, although, then you run into the problem of the organizer being like, let’s buy them a $500 vacuum and that will come out to $100 each- hope that’s okay with everyone, xoxoxox!

Jaya:  Hahahahaha, oh god, just a Hey Ladies email.

Victoria:  Yep, like, just buy them a muffin pan and call it day. Write a nice note. The bride will understand.

Jaya:  I don’t think I’ve ever even heard of invitations specifying to bring gifts. I’ve heard of them saying “no gifts,” but not “yes mandatory gifts.”

Victoria:  Yeah, well, I assume here that with the shower, gifts are implied and the invitation included registry information. Which is allowed because the whole point of the shower is to shower the bride with gifts, so its really “not done” to come without one.

Jaya:  True.

Victoria:  And then I’m betting for the bachelorette, they were like, we’re doing blah blah in blah city staying at blah hotel and please bring a fun lingerie gift for the bride!

Jaya:  I don’t know, the way she said it it sounded a lot more explicit on the invitation. The bachelorette one just says bring a gift, not specifying like, a gag or sexy gift, just a gift. You could probably infer not to bring a toaster to a bachelorette party though.

Victoria:  Ahh well some showers are specific kinds of showers? Like they will be like please bring a bottle of wine to stock the happy couples bar. But yeah, that is not really okay for the bachelorette. Omg, trying so hard to believe that people aren’t being so outrageously rude!

Jaya:  In general it just seems like a lot

Victoria:  I think that people planning these things really need to keep the big picture in mind. Like, if you are having a big blowout out of town bachelorette, maybe no showers? Definitely no presents. If you are keeping everything small and local its fine to do a shower and a bachelorette. If you have out of town bridesmaids, please be extremely aware that they probably won’t be able to make it to anything except the wedding and you can’t guilt them about it. And for showers- you don’t invite the same person to multiple showers!! And if you do because they are a bridesmaid or the sister of the bride- they only have to bring a gift to one shower. And a very nice bride will mention that while she is opening gifts so people don’t wonder why sally didn’t get her anything

Jaya:  Yes! Yeah, I think people forget that sometimes one person will be going to four parties not to mention traveling to the wedding and buying a bridesmaids dress. It’s a lot to ask of a person and people need to be more sensitive to that.