Tag Archives: Etiquette

How Do I Send A Business Thank You Note?

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Even this baby knows to email a thank you after an interview. Via

Even this baby knows to email a thank you after an interview. Via

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

What is the best way to thank someone in a business setting? I’m used to writing thank you notes for gifts and things, but not for job interviews or references.

Best,

Professional Confusion

Official Etiquette:

The Emily Post Institute suggests thanking twice, once verbally when leaving and once in writing. Ask A Manager says they are always a good idea, in email form, and intending to build on the conversation in the interview.

Our Take:

Victoria: Basically, the idea is that you should absolutely be writing thank you notes after all job interviews

Jaya:  Does it have to be on paper?

Victoria:  Nope, paper is way too slow! I started at my current job 2 days after my interview- paper would have gotten there way too late.

Jaya:  Yeah, and you’re probably already emailing with them.

Victoria: Also, you should wait at least a few hours to email it so it looks like you have actually considered your words and thought about the interview.

Jaya: Haha I never write interview thank you notes and that is why I never get hired.

Victoria: Duuuude, you need to.

Jaya: Well in my line of work usually they tell me a specific way to follow up, just like “send us clips/pitch something/etc.”

Victoria: That’s different because you’re still talking. And I would think maybe you would say “it was great talking to you….here are my clips.”

Jaya: Yeah, that’s what I usually do.

Victoria: Then you are doing it!

Jaya: But I remember I got a handwritten thank you note from a girl I had a 15 minute conversation with about working in in my field,  and I was like ‘gahhhh what is this.”

Victoria: Was it just an informational interview?

Jaya: Basically? She was a friend of a family member, just graduated, wanting to know what working in my field was like. Can we make a point that I am the worst at etiquette because people do stuff and I’m like “ew what are you doing, everyone stop talking to each other.”

Victoria: You are not the worst! But for those I do send handwritten notes because the person took actual time to help me out. But that reminds me of another thing I was thinking of recently that’s kind of a side topic.

I went on an informational interview once and the person who was talking to me bought us coffee. And now thinking about it, I probably should have bought the coffee and should have made it clear in my original email to her, like, could I buy you a cup of coffee and ask you about how you got your job and how can I get a job like it.

Jaya:  Really? I mean, that doesn’t come off as a bribe?

Victoria: Nah. But yeah, it’s confusing! Because they are probably the more successful person and you are probably broke-ish.

Jaya:   I think it depends on who does the asking.

Victoria:  Hahaha, like a date.

Jaya: Hahahaha, and you have to leave your napkin on the left when the interview is over.

Jaya:  So what do you actually say in your thank you notes? My standard for interviews is something like “just wanted to thank you for taking the time to talk to me. I’m very excited about the position, and please let me know if you need anything else from me…”

Victoria:  I have actually started eliminating the thank you part- as these are supposed to be more of a follow up, and you are kind of equal partners in finding a good fit for you and for them. And it’s really more of a business meeting than someone really giving you their time. They want you to solve a problem for them!

Jaya:  Oh interesting! What do you write?

Victoria:  Here is a sample:

Dear Whoever,

It was such a pleasure to meet you today. I really enjoyed our conversation about your wonderful company and really appreciate your taking the time to meet with me.

The position sounds like it would be a great fit for my skills and career goals and I want to reiterate how excited I would be for this opportunity. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Victoria

So I guess I sort of thank them in saying I appreciate you taking the time to meet with me but I just don’t like saying thank you.

Jaya:  Ahh yeah. Damn yours is better, no wonder you get hired.

Victoria:  Hahaha, I mean, I’ve used the same format for all of my recent interviews and it was only successful 1 out of 10 times. I would also be a bit more specific in what skills I had discussed in the interview that I think would be a good fit. And maybe add in a bit about what I liked about the company. But anyway, working in HR a bit myself, it is noticed when people do or do not send SOMETHING. So it’s important.

Jaya:  That’s good to know that people actually notice it. I feel like a lot of people think “ehh who cares” but it makes a difference!

Victoria:  Another thing- you should send a note to everyone who interviews you- like if you sit in with a couple different people or whatever.

Jaya:  I try to do that but damn, it is so hard to get everyone’s names.

Victoria:  However, I did have one interview where all my contact was with HR, but I also spoke to a person who would be the supervisor for the role. She didn’t give me a business card or any contact info and told me to direct all questions to HR, so I didn’t send her a note, just sent to HR. Sometimes you can look them up on the company website or on LinkedIn, but just do your best and ask everyone for a card!

Advanced Table Manners

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goopsWith Thanksgiving coming up, you might want to check out our post on basic table manners just to refresh your memory. If you are going to a REALLY fancy Thanksgiving, here are some more advanced table manners to keep in mind.

The Many Forks

First off, it is extremely rare that you will actually be faced with the terrifying array of silverware the novice believes to be the key to etiquette. We have eaten at some of the finest restaurants in the country and have always been provided with exactly the right utensils for each course. The most you will ever see at one time is two forks. However, in general, you will want to work your way from the outside towards the plate. So if you have a salad fork and a regular fork, the salad fork is on the left and you use it first.

American vs Continental Styles

Americans hold their fork in their right hand tines up. They also hold their knife in their right hand and switch the fork to the left tines down to cut things. Then the knife is put down on the plate while using the fork.

Europeans hold their fork in their left tines down and knife in the right and never put either down.

Both are correct. Interestingly, the American style is the older style that the original colonists brought with them from England, the Continental style developed later.

Finger Bowls

If a finger bowl is provided, you lightly dip your fingers in the bowl and then wipe them on your napkin or the cloth provided.

Napkin Rings

A soiled napkin is not returned to the napkin ring unless it is to be reused for another meal. In that case, the napkin ring serves as a marker of whose napkin belongs to whom.

Spooning Soup

Soup should actually be spooned away from you, and the bowl should be tipped away from you as well when getting the last bit. Presumably this is supposed to prevent you from splashing yourself.

Toasts

You do not drink toasts to yourself, just smile and say thank you when it’s done.

Condiments

Condiment jars should not be placed on the table, the condiment should be put in a little dish with a spoon.

In Which We Have a Long Discussion About Holiday Invitations

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I bet the Pilgrims didn’t have these anxieties. [Jean Leon Gerome Ferris [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

I live very far from my family and it is usually too far and too expensive to go home for Thanksgiving. Fortunately, I have plenty of friends in my new city, and sometimes a significant other. These friends and significant others often invite me to join their families for Thanksgiving, but I’m very introverted and get anxious about spending big family holidays with other peoples families. How do I explain to my friends that I really prefer to be alone on the holiday or get over my anxieties and just go?

Signed,

Alone for the holidays

Official Etiquette:

No one is forcing you to go anywhere. Just politely say no.

Our Take:

Jaya:  I think one of the greatest, most empowering things about being an adult is making your own holiday plans.

Victoria:  Even if those plans involve eating take-out Chinese in your pjs and watching Netflix?

Jaya: Oh yeah. But I get it, there’s this big expectation for you to Do Stuff.

Victoria:  I mean, ok, so I relate to this a lot, and sometimes I think that I want to spend a holiday all alone, but then I am afraid I will end up feeling lonely and sorry for myself.

Jaya:  Do you think that’s because you really wanted to go somewhere? Or because you feel like that’s what you’re supposed to do?

Victoria:  I’m not sure! I’m lucky that I live with my sister and we get to have a low key holiday by ourselves, but it still feels like a holiday because we are family. We have passed on going to visit distant relatives that do live near us though.

Jaya:   I think the underlying point of any of these holidays is to be around people you love. For many that means parents/siblings/etc. Or close friends. But it’s not like, lacking any of those, you need to just find anything.

Victoria:  Yeah, that is true.

Jaya:  Sometimes you can totally find love and comfort with strangers, and that can be a whole different and great experience. But you don’t need to be around people just because you think you have to.

Victoria:  What do you do about the more tricky boyfriend/girlfriend situation? Where they are like, you should come home and meet my family?

Jaya:  I think holidays are a really high-pressure time to do a meet the family thing. I mean extended family, ok, but if you meet someone’s parents for the first time at their house that’s a lot to put on anyone. Especially an introvert.

Victoria:  When did you and Matt start going to each others families?

Jaya:  Haha well we’ve known each others families forever. That’s what happens when you meet as teenagers.

Victoria:  That’s true!

Jaya:  He spent Christmases with us before we were dating, so maybe not applicable. But anyway, if it’s not your first time meeting the family, but you’re invited by your SO.  I do think sometimes it can come off as rude if you say you’d rather spend holidays alone instead of with SO’s family, but that’s where communication has to come. If you have anxiety problems, this is something they should know and be able to back you up on if family starts asking questions.

Victoria: Yeah, totally, and maybe plan on getting out of the house for a little bit.

Jaya:  Yes. Excuse yourself for a walk. I also think a little white lying is not out of the question, depending on the circumstance, if it’s a group that would maybe not accept “I just want to be alone” as an answer.

Victoria:  But yeah, I kind of think if you expect to have a long term relationship with someone, you should suck it up and go.

Jaya:  Oh yeah. If you’ve been dating for three months and would prefer to stay home, yeah, but if it’s been 4 years, that’s no good.

Victoria: I also think, as someone who gets pretty anxious, that once I get there, I often have a great time, so sometimes talking yourself into going (to a friend’s or boyfriend’s or whatever) is worth it.

Jaya:  Absolutely. There is a lot to be anxious about, but you should know that if you have your friend or boyfriend or whoever there, you most likely have someone in your corner.

Victoria:  Totally!

Jaya:  Also, depending on who you are, I think sometimes putting yourself to work helps. I feel better when I’m busy, so if I can jump into the kitchen and help clean something or make a pie, I feel like I belong more.

Victoria:  And if you invite a friend to come home with you, be aware of them and what they might need to be comfortable.

Jaya:  Yes. So what should someone say if they’ve thought about this and really prefer to be alone?

Victoria:  I guess, you can try to just be vague and like, oh I have other plans. Or honestly, as long as you don’t mention being alone for Thanksgiving or whatever, people will just assume you are covered. Which brings me to another point of dropping hints if you DO want to be invited somewhere.

Jaya:  Oooh yes.

Victoria:  It’s a pretty tough position to be in where you’re like “hey I don’t have anywhere to go.” And you can’t really just ask to go home with someone for Thanksgiving. So you have to be all like, “oh I guess I’m just going to eat stuffing out of the box on my couch.”

Jaya:  Hahahaha I can see myself totally asking someone if I can come, which is why I need you in my life. And I think that, if you find yourself wanting to go somewhere but nowhere becomes available, going it alone can be sort of freeing. Go to a fun restaurant! Go to the movies!

Victoria:  Yeah! My sister and I do go to the movies sometimes on Thanksgiving! It’s great.

Jaya:  Oh yes. That’s a fun one. Oh, I just remembered, there was a great piece on A Practical Wedding about holiday plans when you’re newlyweds, but I think it applies to everyone. I think it speaks to what we say a lot. The idea of “tradition” can cause a lot of anxiety, but it’s good to remember that every tradition was new at some point, so if you want to break a tradition, or if it’s broken for you, it’s ok.

Victoria: Totally, I think that when you are newlywed and starting your own little family, its good to do your own thing and figure out what works. Being single both simplifies and complicates holidays though, lol.

Jaya:  True. Though I do think we put a lot of focus on romantic relationships as the be-all-end-all. Like, a single 27 year old has just as much right to set boundaries and figure out what works.

Victoria:  Oh totally, I mean it’s nice that you don’t really have to take anyone into account except for yourself. But then, you don’t have an automatic person who has your back and who you can just be alone with. And generally, being single, you get a pretty decent amount of alone time already.

Jaya: In conclusion, holidays do tend to cause anxiety. Which is a shame because they’re supposed to be about togetherness and comfort and there’s no shame in looking out for your own comfort whether that means going it alone, or asking someone to include you.

Victoria:  And definitely keep including your friends even if they are being prickly, just don’t pressure. I always appreciate open invitations, personally, even if I don’t take people up on them.

Thank Goodness We Don’t Have To Do That Anymore: Finger Bowls

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Dessert place setting- the finger bowl is on the white doily to the left. [via Wikimedia Commons]

Finger bowls are one of those mainstays of snooty etiquette examples, with people focusing on this one obscure bit of etiquette as a reason it is outdated and unnecessary. Obviously, our whole point with this website is to show how etiquette is still useful and necessary. But it is also fun to talk about things like finger bowls!

So what is a finger bowl? It is essentially a little bowl of water that you dip your fingers in to clean them at the dinner table.

Some reference books claim they have been used on and off from medieval times until now, but I can barely find any references to them in etiquette books before 1900. So I believe finger bowls as we imagine them must have been a late Victorian/Gilded Age invention.

Finger bowls are always served with the dessert course. In fact, as the change of plates and silverware for the dessert course is brought out, the finger bowl is actual on top of a doily on top of the dessert plate. The diner then removes the finger bowl from the plate and places it (and the doily!) to the front and slightly left of the place setting. However, if there is no silverware on the plate with the finger bowl, it signals that there is no dessert and then the finger bowl is left on the plate.

To use the finger bowl, you gently dip the very tips of your fingers into the water and then dry them off with your napkin. You may also dab a bit of the water onto your lips with your fingers and then pat dry with the napkin. You are not really supposed to be washing your hands, merely giving a polite impression of cleanliness.

A more serious, soapy bowl of water may be given after eating messy foods such as lobster. Of course, nowadays we have those handy packets of wet wipes that rib joints pass out- not quite as elegant but definitely more practical.

Of course my favorite finger bowl story is the one where the impolite rube is at a fancy society dinner and drinks the contents of the bowl. His hostess (often said to be Queen Victoria) promptly drinks her finger bowl water also, so that he doesn’t feel that he has done something wrong. A perfect example of the spirit in which etiquette exists: to make everyone feel comfortable.

Interestingly, despite the fact that no one actually uses finger bowls anymore, every contemporary book of dining etiquette mentions how to use them. I’ve eaten at a lot of fancy places and have never seen them. If you have, please tell me where in the comments!

Noisy Neighbors

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It could be worse, your neighbors could play this at 2am. via Wikimedia Commons

 

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

Our neighbours and I share a semi-detached home. There is a brick wall between us. The other night they had a very loud party – their first loud one in 3 years.The noise, music and loud talking was awful. By 1:30 in the morning, my husband got out of bed and knocked on their door. They said “oh its only 11:30.”  He politely corrected them, and they said they’d calm down.  We awoke again at 2:30 am due to the loud music. We’ve all been super friendly in the past, and so I’d expected that they would’ve stopped by and offered a chagrined apology by now. Nothing after 3 days.  Now we feel like the old, crabby and dull neighbours.

Are my expectations too high? What should they have done (assuming they even remember that we politely approached them)?

Sincerely,

Need Some Sleep

OFFICIAL ETIQUETTE

Miss Manners always advises a peaceful and civil communication with noisy neighbors.

We’ve also already covered how to be a good urban dweller, which includes not being noisy and how to deal with noisy neighbors.

OUR TAKE

Victoria: My first instinct is that if it’s the first time in three years and they are otherwise good neighbors, maybe just let it slide.

Jaya: Three years is pretty good!

Victoria: On the other side, when I’ve had friends who had regular loud parties, they would tell the neighbors ahead of time and that seemed to help.

Jaya: Perhaps the neighbors honestly thought they had toned it down at the first request, so they wouldn’t have thought they needed to apologize.

Victoria: Yeah, drunk people are not exactly the best judges of noise. And at that point, honestly, any amount of noise is going to annoy you.

Jaya: You’re gonna hear anything at 2:30 am. Though if someone complains to you about noise, I think it’s good to do a test!

Victoria: Oooh what kind of test?

Jaya: If your neighbors come to you with a noise complaint, have them go back in their apartment and turn your music up and down and figure out at what level it doesn’t bother them, and then just remember where it’s at for your next party.

Victoria: Ooh that’s a genius idea.

Jaya: (We keep trying to do this with my terrible neighbors and it doesn’t work because they’re the worst.)

Victoria: Hahaha oh no.

Jaya; Every weekend we tell them to turn it down. How the hell do they not remember?

Victoria: Yeah, I think EVERY weekend is insane. But one loud party in three years is not much to get upset about. Consider it a free pass to have a loud party of your own!

Jaya: Yes! And maybe be the bigger people and warn them that you’ll be having a party, so they know that behavior is expected.

Victoria: Yeah, that way you’ve covered your bases if you need to call the police later. Which is always an option.

Jaya: The only time I think there really should be leeway is New Years. If it’s 4am and they’re still going it doesn’t matter, it’s New Years.

Victoria: Totally, and a weekend is going to need more leeway too.Though now that I work on Saturdays I’m not sure how i would feel about a loud party on a Friday, lol. But yeah, if it’s constant and you live in a house, you’re always free to call the police. And now reading this question, it might be a nice gesture for their neighbors to apologize and bring some cookies or something over the next day, especially if they complained.

Jaya: Yeah, that would be nice, though again if they thought they had toned it down enough maybe they didn’t think they had to. I’ve had neighbors mention once to quiet down and I have, and never felt the need to apologize. Though growing up in New York apartments, you sort of have a higher tolerance for noise. It’s a bit more expected.

Victoria: Though I would rather have one loud party every three years than a screaming baby every day, which is what I have now.