Category Archives: Advice

Do I Have to Reciprocate All Christmas Gifts?

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Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

So a friend of mine asked me for my address the other day so she could mail me a Christmas gift, and now I’m wondering if I’m obligated to reciprocate. We met online about five years ago but we’ve never actually spent time together in person. I know her interests very well and had some cute ideas right away, but I had no intent to get her something before she asked for my address. HOW HELP?

Sincerely,

Giftless and Feeling Guilty

Official Etiquette:

Miss Manners wrote a lovely essay about choosing which holiday traditions to celebrate while remaining thankful and polite about all overtures made to you. You can read it here.

Our Take:

Victoria: So basically the answer is yes, it’s totally fine not to give a gift in return if you weren’t going to in the first place.

Jaya: Totally. You know, thank her and everything, but it’s really out of the blue.

Victoria: Yeah, actually! This JUST happened to me.

Jaya: What!

Victoria: [Redacted] texted me and was like, “I broke the rules and got you a Christmas present because I happened to see the perfect thing and you aren’t allowed to get me something in return.”

But then again, there are some years that I do a small homemade Christmas present for all my friends and some years that I don’t and its all fine either way.

Jaya: Yeah, I think it depends on your friends and traditions, but I do think at some point we all end up agreeing that holiday presents are for family and like, really really close friends or a Secret Santa group or something.

Victoria: Yeah, although some people go totally nuts with gift giving. Like- there’s a part in Love Actually where Emma Thompson is wrapping gifts for her kids friends and I’ve always been so confused about why you would give Christmas gifts to random children.

Jaya: I think after a certain age, if you’re one of those people, you have to accept that as your thing and not everyone’s thing.

Victoria: Haha yeah, totally.

Jaya: Like, do it because you found something great for your friends, not because you’re trying to backhand pressure some gift-giving exchange onto people who don’t have the capacity or energy.

Victoria: Yessssss

Jaya: And you know, a million times, a gift is a gift. So Matt was on the phone with his mom the other day and asked if she wanted anything for Hanukkah, and she was like “of course not, Hanukkah is for children.” Which is sorta great, like it’s totally a kids holiday pumped up to compete with Christmas so Jewish kids don’t feel left out, but the adults know it’s for them. I sorta wish we could have a bit more of that sensibility all around. I mean I love gifts and holiday spirit and stuff but it does cause a lot of anxiety.

Victoria: Eh, I mean it depends. That whole “love languages thing.” One of my favorite parts of Christmas is exchanging gifts with my family and my family does tend to be very gifty. But yeah, not like, with the neighbors.

Jaya: Love languages is a good way to put it, as much as that concept isn’t perfect. I think here it totally works.

Victoria: Like, the rest of the “gift giving” times of the year are very one sided- one person gives and one person receives, whereas “Christmas” is more about the exchange. Haha which I just realized totally contradicts our advice that you don’t HAVE to give a gift in return.

Jaya: Hahahaha it does! I mean, the exchange is great if you’re predisposed to like the exchange or see it coming.

Victoria: Yeah, exactly. It’s very lovely with your family is what I’m saying.

Jaya: That’s the thing that throws me. Like, I’ve bought gifts for my parents and siblings and husband, because I spent Christmas morning with them. And we did the Secret Santa thing with friends, which was fun, but also totally voluntary, like, you didn’t have to sign up.

Victoria: Yeah! It was fun!

Jaya: Which I like more than just getting a gift out of nowhere from someone I’ve never met. I mean I understand internet friendships are 100% real friendships, I have many, but still.

Victoria: Oh right, this person is an internet friend. Does she say specifically that she is sending a gift. Because maybe its just a Christmas card? Oh yeah she does. Lol. Read the question, Victoria.

Jaya: Hahaha

Victoria: Well, I would say, just comfort yourself knowing that its probably something small. And maybe it is Anthrax! This is a person from the internet after all.

Jaya: Hahahahaha! So right like, holiday cards are another thing. Some people love sending out holiday cards, and some don’t, but it’s not like if you get one you have to make one to send back. I always think I’m gonna do them and then I remember it’s extra money for me to send something most people are gonna throw out.

Victoria: Lol yeah, I want to do Christmas cards, but whoops, I did not. If it comforts you, my mom always displays all the cards they get for the whole month. And my sister and I go through and make fun of the Christmas letters, so its not such a waste.

Jaya: Hahaha that’s good. Yeah I think I always forget until I get one, and then obvs it’s too late.

Victoria: Haha yeah. My sister and I did them last year, but she did all the work sooooo…Okay, this year I will buy cards on clearance in January and then I will do them. This is my resolution.

Is BYOB Tacky?

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Seems like a fun party. [Via Wikimedia Commons]

Dear Uncommon Courtesy

A good friend and his live-in girlfriend occasionally throw cocktail parties at their apartment for the holidays, each other’s birthdays, etc. While he and his girlfriend are not hedge fund partners, they do reasonably well for themselves as independent, gainfully-employed 20-somethings. More often than not, their party invitations will specify that although they will be serving a punch or specific cocktail of some sort, they would like all guests to BYOB. 

My question is twofold: First, how do I handle the hostess gift situation here? Do I double up and bring them a bottle of wine in addition to whatever I would like to imbibe at this party? Do I specify which is which? Because that seems like it could get awkward. Second, am I wrong in thinking that this is incredibly tacky of them? 

Basically, how can I best be a polite guest in a situation where I think the hosts are being less than polite themselves? 

Sincerely,

Flummoxed in NY 

Official Etiquette

Miss Manners sees BYOB as “a collegiate and internship form, suitable for people who have not yet mastered adult housekeeping and whose finances are so close to the edge that they cannot wait for the costs of socializing to be shared through eventual reciprocation.” She also suggests following along with what the rest of you social circles does and if no one brings their own beverage, then you know that it’s not the done thing and you aren’t going to have much luck trying to change it.

Our Take
Jaya: Uhh is BYOB tacky??
Victoria: LOL no. Or, maybe it sort of is? But it’s fine. And duh, you do not need to bring two things.
Jaya: Absolutely, BYOB negates a host gift. And I usually don’t bring a “host gift” for a run-of-the-mill party. Special occasions or being a house guest, sure, but I’ll usually bring a bottle of wine or text the host and ask if I can pick anything up. I have never considered BYOB tacky though, especially if you’re providing punch or some type of liquor, as these hosts seem to be doing.
Victoria: Thinking about it more, I think it depends. I can’t remember my parents ever throwing a BYOB party. I guess at a certain age and income level it just makes sense for the hosts to provide everything, though I do not know what those levels are.
Jaya: It also depends how the hosts phrase it. When hosting a party, I’ll often say “we’ll have snacks and some wine and liquor, but feel free to bring any food or booze you want.” But it’s not like I’d kick someone out for not bringing a six pack. I probably wouldn’t even notice.
Victoria: And if you’re in your 20s, maybe you throw parties because you’re the one with the biggest apartment, so it becomes a nice, central place to get everyone together. But yes, I always like to have enough for everyone, but if people bring things that’s fine too.
Jaya: Man, I just can’t bring myself to call this tacky though. BYOB, potlucks, these are all known quantities.
Victoria: Yeah, I wouldn’t call it tacky exactly.
Jaya: I’m a huge fan of BYOB actually. I just think it’s a great, efficient way to have a party. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve hosted a party with a “full bar” and been stuck with a bunch of stuff no one wanted. Or, people can be really picky about what they drink, so I’d rather they just bring something they know they want.
Victoria: Yeah, I think it’s great for more of a house party situation. But it’s definitely better to phrase it as “we have this, if you want to bring anything else, feel free” instead of making it a hard requirement. You really should provide enough punch/cocktails/wine for 1-2 drinks per guest, just a base level.
Jaya: Absolutely. I can’t tell what the hosts’ tone is from this letter, but I guess if LW wanted to test it they could just “forget” to bring something to the next party. Good hosts/friends would be like “oh no worries, we got stuff” or just not even mention it.
Victoria: Exactly. Though, if you plan on drinking a whole case of beer yourself, you should maybe bring it.
Jaya: It’s all just heavily contingent on your friend group and the social norms of drinking/hosting that exist within it.
Victoria: You know what I have encountered, that I do think is kind of tacky? House parties where the hosts charge admission.
Jaya: WHAT WHAT WHAT
Victoria: YES it’s a THING.
Jaya: Okay I have heard of rent parties? And I guess it’s like, if you’re spending $10 on a six pack or $10 on “admission,” you’re spending that money either way?
Victoria: Presumably the charge is to cover the alcohol, but then you don’t know if it’s going to be a fun party or if they have what you want to drink, and you might as well just go to a bar. Or if you spend $10 on a six pack, you at least know it’s beer you like.
Jaya: Okay, I do think this question sort of touches on the awkwardness that happens when an implied rule becomes explicit. I would not show up at a party without either a bottle of wine (or equivalent), or without checking with the host about if there were something I could bring. And when I am the host, my friends often show up with drinks or food, or call me asking if I need anything. It’s this nice exchange that most people silently agree to, so I can see how specifically saying BYOB disrupts that. It’s almost insulting–as if you wouldn’t think of bringing beer on your own. Is that reading too much into it?
Victoria: No, I think that makes sense. It’s like when my mom tells me to write a thank you note to my grandmother. Like yes, I know, I ALWAYS write a thank you note, why are you reminding me?
Jaya: But if I saw BYOB on an invitation, I would not be like “Mercy, this person thinks I have no manners!”
Victoria: Hahahah yeah. And you can always turn it down if you don’t want to BYOB.
Jaya: I cannot imagine the kind of person who would be so offended by the premise of BYOB that they’d refuse to go to their friend’s party. I mean you just gotta consider your own priorities there.
Victoria: And if you’re a host and have a specific theme/feel in mind, you should just provide everything yourself. Like if you’re having a speakeasy party and tallboys of Budweiser would kill the aesthetic. Though people can surprise you! I hosted a Mad Men party and provided lots of stuff, but my friends still showed up with fancy mixers and such.
Jaya: On either side of the equation, remember that you’re dealing with people you like. If you’re a host, try to trust that your friends are nice, considerate people who would offer to bring something or to help out without your explicit instructions. And if you’re a guest, be that nice, considerate guest for your friend who is being nice and hosting a party. Be generous with friends, no matter which role you’re playing.

What Do I Do With The Handyman?

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Fun fact: My super's name is Mario

Fun fact: My super’s name is Mario

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

Like a lot of New York apartments, mine sometimes falls apart and needs fixing. Of course, the repair guy isn’t someone I picked and hired, he’s the dude my landlord knows.

What exactly should I be doing when he’s working on my doorknobs or closets? I feel like a jerk who doesn’t trust him if I hover, but on the other hand I really don’t know this dude, so going into another room seems like a bad idea. He is clearly not interested in talking to me more than necessary, so friendly chatting is out.

Instead, I tend to stand kinda nearby and mess around on my phone (this is what I’m doing right now), which feels rather like the worst of both possibilities.

So what’s the least dickish, but also most sensible, thing to do?

Thanks,

Hovering Over Handyman

Official Etiquette

Amy Vanderbilt wrote of servants: “Try from the beginning of your relationship with a domestic to establish a dignified employer-employee relationship. Make your orders clear, and, whenever possible, put them in writing. From time to time review the work in a friendly manner, giving censure, encouragement, and praise, as needed.”

Our Take

Victoria: Repair guys! It is pretty awkward to figure out what to do. Personally, I pretty much like to leave them alone and not hover. But my apartment is small so I can hear what’s going on.

Jaya: I’ve found myself hovering recently, but that’s only because our Super our neighbor and really chatty. Or I’ll have questions about things.

Victoria: I also think it’s nice to offer some water, especially if it’s hot out.

Jaya: Yes! That’s been my standard: offer water, and then say I’ll be in the living room/bedroom/wherever if they need me. I also think that even if it isn’t someone you picked yourself, it’s not like you’re totally screwed if something happened. You can absolutely hold the landlord accountable if something is stolen or broken, or they do a bad job.

Victoria: Exactly. Or, you know, call the police.

Jaya: It just seems logical that if the landlord signs off on sending someone to your apartment, you can go to them if something goes wrong.

Victoria: Just don’t leave $100 bills on your counter or something like that.

Jaya: Such a problem for all of us. But yeah, I get it. It is a bit weird having someone doing stuff in your house. I feel like most of use aren’t used to having “house help” so we’re just awkward about it.

Victoria: When I was a kid my parents had a cleaning company come sometimes, and when they’d be there after school I’d sort of slink from room to room to avoid them. Interestingly, the “old way” with servants kind of worked–the servants would go up and straighten the bedrooms while everyone was awake and downstairs eating breakfast. And Emily Post admonishes people in the first edition of Etiquette for not giving their servants the time and space they needed to get into the rooms to clean.

Jaya: Psh, who has an “upstairs,” the Rockefellers? When I was a teenager my mom would have a cleaning person sometimes, and there was always a “cleaning for the cleaners” thing that would happen.

Victoria: We had that too, but it makes sense. A lot of companies won’t move stuff to clean under it. Also, if you’re paying for four hours, they won’t be able to get to the actual cleaning/sanitizing if they have to pick up a bunch of junk first.

Jaya: That’s very true. But yeah, I think servant etiquette just doesn’t translate for most people now. If your house is big enough for servant’s quarters then yes, you won’t notice them. But if there’s someone in my house, I know. I also think it has to do with the shame of hiring someone for that, or maybe it’s just me. I’m a capable woman, I should be able to reinstall windows or whatever.

Victoria: You rent though, so that’s part of the deal! It’s not like you’re investing in something you own.

Help, My Roommate’s Girlfriend Won’t Leave!

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egJey8PDear Uncommon Courtesy,

If your roommate as a significant other over fairly regularly, isn’t it expected that the roommate would not leave his SO alone in the apartment? Shouldn’t he be responsible for making his guest enter and leave the apartment with him? I get that it’s his girlfriend but I wouldn’t let any of my guests stay in the apartment for prolonged amounts of time (4+ hours) without me. He and I weren’t friends before he moved in a few months ago, and I’ve confronted him at least three times but he seems to be in denial about how long his girlfriend is there without him. She mostly stays in his room, but I feel like she’s just trying not to get caught now.

Sincerely,

Unintentional Third

 

Official Etiquette

According to a survey on the subject on Splitwise.com, “A strong majority of survey respondents think it’s none of their business if a significant other is staying over a few (2-3) nights a week. The majority also thinks that if they are staying nearly every night of the week (more than 5), they should be chipping in something. The tipping point is at 5 nights a week, where our survey respondents are roughly split 50/50.” Also, when Miss Manners was asked about one girl’s boyfriend getting in trouble with the landlord for parking in a “guest” spot so often, she replied “guests are not charged by hosts for the space they occupy. Residents usually share costs. Miss Manners will leave it up to you and the gentleman in question to define what he is doing in the apartment.” So…she’s no help at all.

Our Take

Jaya: This is definitely an issue, but I don’t think there’s a hard and fast etiquette rule about this. I don’t think most people “expect” anything about this situation one way or another. Especially if this is your only issue with your roommate (which I’m not sure about in this case).

Victoria:  If they ARE there all the time, they should probably chip in with rent and utilities. But at some point it becomes about how your roommate lives his life and you either deal with it or move/ask them to move.

Jaya: Definitely, and it changes with every situation. A few years ago I basically lived with my then-boyfriend for a few months, but his roommate was a mutual friend so it was much easier. I offered to pay rent but they said no, so I tried to make it up by cleaning up after myself and cooking and not spending too much time in the living room unless we were all hanging out. It’s not this automatic etiquette faux pas, though I do think it’d be polite of her to offer something like that.

Victoria: It’s just so hard.

Jaya: But like, we’re all adults here. People have overnight guests, and if she stays in his room mostly it seems like she’s making an effort to be clean and scarce. If she’s taking up a lot of space or making huge messes or a lot of noise that’s another issue, but I’m not sure that’s the case here.

Victoria: The hard part for me is that this person may be the roommate’s girlfriend, but she’s still pretty much a stranger to LW. I wish more shared apartments came with locks on the bedroom doors.

Jaya: Totally, just because your roommate trusts this girl doesn’t mean you have to. She might be a con artist and steal all your stuff! But if you’ve already brought it up three times and nothing is changing, I think you either have to accept it or move out.

Victoria: That’s just solid advice for most roommate situations.

Jaya: If she were to talk to her roommate a fourth time about this, what should she say?

Victoria: Just be like, I know we’ve talked about this before, but “Jane” is here almost every day and it’s starting to be too much. And then maybe suggest she can only be there say 3-4 nights a week, or that she can only be there when he’s there. And then if he disagrees, say then you need to start splitting the utilities at least 3 ways. Maybe you can talk about rent, but a lot of group apartments split rent by bedroom.

Jaya: Coming at it with a list of demands definitely helps, and it can also help you figure out what you’re willing to live with. Like, is the issue that you think you’re paying too much in rent for three people living there? Or is the issue that she’s over all the time?

Victoria: I think paying rent or utilities can be a nice consolation if you lose the battle of how often they’re over, so at least you end up saving money. But yeah, it’s all about knowing what you can and can’t live with.

Jaya: And you know, just think about it from their side.  Maybe she lives far away and it’s just easier for her to hang out for a few hours instead of going home then going back out somewhere.

Victoria: Yes, if you were in their position, you’d want to bring over a significant other too.

Short Question on Financial Etiquette

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Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

If I send a check and it gets lost in the mail, who should pay the bank fee to have it stopped? Me or the recipient?

Sincerely,

Fee’d Off

Official Etiquette:

Miss Manners and Emily Post haven’t really covered this, but in other check etiquette it is generally best to cash checks ASAP when you get them so people are surprised by the draw on their account three months later (though of course, everyone should be balancing their checking accounts- HA!)

Our Take:

Jaya: Whoaaaa. I have no idea. I mean I think you? Actually the post office should.

Victoria: Lol okay, so I answered thus when it was originally posed on Twitter: if you are close to the person, just write a new check and ask them to tear up the lost one if it ever arrives. But if not, since you are ultimately the person who will have the check amount come out of your account when it is cashed then its on you to pay the fee to make sure that doesn’t happen.

Jaya: What doesn’t happen?

Victoria: Okay, so say you write a check and it gets lost in the mail. You write the person a new check and they cash it, then the lost check shows up and they cash that too.

Jaya: Then they’re a scumbag?

Victoria: Well yeah, but it can be an honest mistake but you are still out double the money (which you then have to try to get refunded). So its your responsibility to cancel the check so that it can’t be cashed.

Jaya: Well yeah of course. Wait is the other option people consider is asking your friend to call your bank to cancel the fee? I don’t get what the issue is.

Victoria: No, I think the issue is that the person writing the check wants to write a second check and deduct the fee the bank charges for canceling the first check. Thus making the check receiver “pay” the fee. By getting less money. Which yeah…no. They have no way of knowing that you even genuinely sent the first check! You could be lying!

Jaya: Why do people insist on making things a thousand times more complicated? I guess this seems like such a non-issue to me. I can’t imagine a situation in which I wouldn’t call my bank to cancel the check, pay whatever fee, and then send a new check. How is that not the standard course of action for everyone?

Victoria: Yeah exactly. I mean, check canceling fees CAN be high, like sometimes something like $50. So I often hedge my bets and don’t bother canceling them.

Jaya: Wait so you just ask your friend to rip up the check, right?

Victoria: Yeah, I mean, my rent check has gotten lost in the mail before and I just never canceled it. I guess, if it did finally show up and they cashed it, they would just apply it to my next months rent. Which for me is fine, but for other people might be a problem if that would overdraft their account. So you just have to weigh that kind of thing against whether it is worth it to pay the fee for the peace of mind knowing that it can’t be cashed.

Jaya: This seems less like etiquette and more like finance. Or really like, etiquette: don’t cash double checks and scam your friends?

Victoria: Haha yeah true. And business-wise, there is no way you are ever going to get, say the cable company, to pay your canceled check fee, they will laugh at you. I think it was a worthwhile etiquette question to ask though- a young person might just not know what is the social norm here!