Author Archives: Uncommon Courtesy

What Do I Do With The Handyman?

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Fun fact: My super's name is Mario

Fun fact: My super’s name is Mario

Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

Like a lot of New York apartments, mine sometimes falls apart and needs fixing. Of course, the repair guy isn’t someone I picked and hired, he’s the dude my landlord knows.

What exactly should I be doing when he’s working on my doorknobs or closets? I feel like a jerk who doesn’t trust him if I hover, but on the other hand I really don’t know this dude, so going into another room seems like a bad idea. He is clearly not interested in talking to me more than necessary, so friendly chatting is out.

Instead, I tend to stand kinda nearby and mess around on my phone (this is what I’m doing right now), which feels rather like the worst of both possibilities.

So what’s the least dickish, but also most sensible, thing to do?

Thanks,

Hovering Over Handyman

Official Etiquette

Amy Vanderbilt wrote of servants: “Try from the beginning of your relationship with a domestic to establish a dignified employer-employee relationship. Make your orders clear, and, whenever possible, put them in writing. From time to time review the work in a friendly manner, giving censure, encouragement, and praise, as needed.”

Our Take

Victoria: Repair guys! It is pretty awkward to figure out what to do. Personally, I pretty much like to leave them alone and not hover. But my apartment is small so I can hear what’s going on.

Jaya: I’ve found myself hovering recently, but that’s only because our Super our neighbor and really chatty. Or I’ll have questions about things.

Victoria: I also think it’s nice to offer some water, especially if it’s hot out.

Jaya: Yes! That’s been my standard: offer water, and then say I’ll be in the living room/bedroom/wherever if they need me. I also think that even if it isn’t someone you picked yourself, it’s not like you’re totally screwed if something happened. You can absolutely hold the landlord accountable if something is stolen or broken, or they do a bad job.

Victoria: Exactly. Or, you know, call the police.

Jaya: It just seems logical that if the landlord signs off on sending someone to your apartment, you can go to them if something goes wrong.

Victoria: Just don’t leave $100 bills on your counter or something like that.

Jaya: Such a problem for all of us. But yeah, I get it. It is a bit weird having someone doing stuff in your house. I feel like most of use aren’t used to having “house help” so we’re just awkward about it.

Victoria: When I was a kid my parents had a cleaning company come sometimes, and when they’d be there after school I’d sort of slink from room to room to avoid them. Interestingly, the “old way” with servants kind of worked–the servants would go up and straighten the bedrooms while everyone was awake and downstairs eating breakfast. And Emily Post admonishes people in the first edition of Etiquette for not giving their servants the time and space they needed to get into the rooms to clean.

Jaya: Psh, who has an “upstairs,” the Rockefellers? When I was a teenager my mom would have a cleaning person sometimes, and there was always a “cleaning for the cleaners” thing that would happen.

Victoria: We had that too, but it makes sense. A lot of companies won’t move stuff to clean under it. Also, if you’re paying for four hours, they won’t be able to get to the actual cleaning/sanitizing if they have to pick up a bunch of junk first.

Jaya: That’s very true. But yeah, I think servant etiquette just doesn’t translate for most people now. If your house is big enough for servant’s quarters then yes, you won’t notice them. But if there’s someone in my house, I know. I also think it has to do with the shame of hiring someone for that, or maybe it’s just me. I’m a capable woman, I should be able to reinstall windows or whatever.

Victoria: You rent though, so that’s part of the deal! It’s not like you’re investing in something you own.

Would You Hire a Bridesmaid?

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We recently read about this new service, Bridesmaid For Hire, who, as described, will fulfill many of the traditional duties of a bridesmaid: help with planning, keeping peace with your family and friends, and a shoulder to cry on. We thought this was an interesting concept, especially given the blowback brides have gotten from demanding too much from their real bridesmaids, and had a lot to say about it:

Jaya: So this is just a wedding coordinator? Can we talk about this? And also that a lot could be solved if you talked with your bridesmaids about expectations beforehand?

Victoria: Yeah, I mean I guess it is slightly different than a planner or coordinator, it’s almost more the old fashioned social secretary, except mixed with a therapist. I guess it’s a fine idea if people want to shell out for it. And super great if it means no one is expecting a bridesmaid to deal with every little issue.

Jaya: I’m weirded out that one of the packages involves her actually walking down the aisle as a bridesmaid.

Victoria: THAT is REALLY weird. Like you are showing your wedding pictures to your grandkids and “oh that lady is someone I hired to come.” You can definitely do all that stuff and not be IN the ceremony!!!

Jaya: And also I think it just frustrates me that we’ve gotten to the point where this is what’s expected as a bridesmaid.

Victoria: Yeah, omg the crazy expectations.

Jaya: It’s more the bigger picture that now you expect your best friend to be an expert party planner. So instead of lowering your expectations, you hire a better friend?

Victoria: Yeah, seriously. I mean the thing is, no one should be expecting their bridesmaids to do ANY of this. Bridesmaid expectations: show up, wear prescribed dress. Anything else is extra (not that there aren’t very heavy cultural expectations at play!)

Jaya: Yeah, and I mean, that’s why you talk about it! Don’t just throw all this stuff on somebody, because they might be busy with other things, or maybe they’re just not good at planning showers.

Victoria: The bachelorette party and stuff is generally expected, but honestly if your bridesmaids are too broke, spread out, or busy, then tough–you don’t get that. Or you take what they CAN give you.

Jaya: I just feel like most of it could be solved with like “this is what I’m hoping happens, is that something you think you could do?” and then everyone is just honest with each other.

Victoria: Yeah, for sure, and like also omg, it doesn’t HAVE to be the MOH who does it all. Like if MOH lives far away, and Bridesmaid A is interested and wants to plan, then duh she should. The whole thing is so bizarre.

Jaya: Yeah! When I was a bridesmaid, the maid of honor would start an email chain and then everyone figured it out together based on our budgets and schedules.

Victoria: I do like this Bridesmaid for Hire the more I think about it- if you need THAT level of service and hand holding, it’s definitely better to hire someone than force it on your friends. But don’t dress them up and march them down the aisle, that’s creepy and weird.

Jaya: I’m trying to figure out how I feel. To me, it’s more like, a wedding coordinator and a therapist would probably be more beneficial in the long run. You get the coordinator for planning, and you get your friends for emotional support. And with “forcing” it on your friends, obviously it depends by relationship, but I’d hope that my friends could take maybe a few late night freak out phone calls. I don’t wanna push the boundaries of what friends are for, but sometimes that’s what friends are for! OR YOUR SPOUSE MAYBE??? Like if you’re bonding yourself for the rest of your life to a person, maybe they can be an emotional/planning support??

Victoria: Yeah for sure, but if you need someone like…every day. I mean, I guess that maybe means you have bigger problems, lol.

Jaya: Anyway, yeah it does sound useful if your friends and spouse are gonna be no help and you’re prone to getting overwhelmed.

Victoria: Yeah, and if you were going to hire a wedding coordinator anyway, maybe you want that extra level of service.

Jaya: But if you take away the wedding coordinator duties, you’re sort of left with just needing the emotional support. and ideally you have friends that can provide that. I know bridesmaids are just supposed to show up in a dress, but I also think they’re supposed to be a bit happy for you and supportive when you need them, like friends are.

Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. But I guess looking at her packages she does do a lot of coordination type stuff, like between a full on wedding planner who deals with vendors and a “day of” coordinator who isn’t really there to help you make to-do lists and stuff.

Jaya: I feel like a lot of planners offer packages like that too. At least when I was researching there were lots of in between options.

Victoria: Do they? I have no idea.

Jaya: So I guess this girl is just good at branding/marketing. And sometimes wearing a dress and standing next to you.

Victoria: Not to mention the creepy thing of your MOH hiring this person secretly to plan your showers/bachelorettes.

Jaya: Yeah!!!!! That is weird. Like, if you’re a bridesmaid and you’re thinking of hiring help, please talk to the bride first.

Victoria: Seriously, omg that is so strange. Unless I guess you are super rich and would outsource all that kind of thing anyway.

Jaya: It’s just frustrating that it’s gone far enough to justify this, instead of people maybe trying to work together with their friends to make an enjoyable time.

Victoria: Haha yeah, but I do get, I guess, that weddings are more “stressful” now than maybe they used to be. And so maybe you do need to hire some form of planning help, in whichever iteration is more pleasing to you.

Jaya: Yeah. Though it still is about expectation. If you planned a 300 person wedding 100 years ago, you’d probably need a social secretary or assistants and such, but now, the expectation is that everyone will have a big wedding and know how to plan it by themselves.

Victoria: Yeah, plus your mom would be planning it and had probably planned dozens of parties for 300 people.

Jaya: Hahaha yeah. And yeah there’s the WIC (Wedding Industrial Complex) and all that, whatever. [ed. Jaya is not very into the term Wedding Industrial Complex] [other ed. IT’S A STRAWMAN]  I guess what bothers me is people tend to use that as an excuse for having no control over their weddings, like there are no other options. Hellooo you’re an adult, stand up to your parents’ expectations. And we have the internet, I can find you a white dress for under $100 like yesterday.

Victoria: Haha yeah, exactly, but I mean, it does seem like a lot of people go in with great expectations about keeping control on things and then it just spirals and they throw their hands up. So I can see getting in over your head.

Jaya: It is easy to be convinced things are necessary when they’re not, by family or by vendors. That’s definitely an issue. Why can’t everyone else just have a will of steel??

Victoria: Plus you have to have a pretty strong sense of self and what you want to do that. And that is just not easy for…probably most people. Especially if they hadn’t really thought much about their wedding besides, “it will be lovely and pretty and the happiest day of my life.” And not everyone spends as much time reading about weddings as us. For some reason.

Jaya: WHY NOT?! They have no excuse then. I say that as a joke but also kinda mean it???? Like, even if you haven’t read a lot about it, it’s not ridiculous to go in thinking it’ll take planning and decisions. So if you don’t research how to do that and then get overwhelmed, idk.

Victoria: Haha yeah for sure. I mean there are tons of resources.

Jaya: I certainly got overwhelmed, and it’s hard dealing with everyone’s opinions. But if it’s too hard for you then go to City Hall. If you agree to do a wedding, you sorta have to agree to planning, and making decisions, and saying no, and all this stuff. Or that you’ll pay someone to do it for you.

Victoria: Lol yeah for sure. Anyway, it’s certainly not rude to hire a bridesmaid, but maybe it would be best to talk to your actual bridesmaids about their expectations first. And, hey, if anyone wants to hire etiquette consultants to make sure you are doing everything above board, we are probably available!

Help, My Roommate’s Girlfriend Won’t Leave!

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egJey8PDear Uncommon Courtesy,

If your roommate as a significant other over fairly regularly, isn’t it expected that the roommate would not leave his SO alone in the apartment? Shouldn’t he be responsible for making his guest enter and leave the apartment with him? I get that it’s his girlfriend but I wouldn’t let any of my guests stay in the apartment for prolonged amounts of time (4+ hours) without me. He and I weren’t friends before he moved in a few months ago, and I’ve confronted him at least three times but he seems to be in denial about how long his girlfriend is there without him. She mostly stays in his room, but I feel like she’s just trying not to get caught now.

Sincerely,

Unintentional Third

 

Official Etiquette

According to a survey on the subject on Splitwise.com, “A strong majority of survey respondents think it’s none of their business if a significant other is staying over a few (2-3) nights a week. The majority also thinks that if they are staying nearly every night of the week (more than 5), they should be chipping in something. The tipping point is at 5 nights a week, where our survey respondents are roughly split 50/50.” Also, when Miss Manners was asked about one girl’s boyfriend getting in trouble with the landlord for parking in a “guest” spot so often, she replied “guests are not charged by hosts for the space they occupy. Residents usually share costs. Miss Manners will leave it up to you and the gentleman in question to define what he is doing in the apartment.” So…she’s no help at all.

Our Take

Jaya: This is definitely an issue, but I don’t think there’s a hard and fast etiquette rule about this. I don’t think most people “expect” anything about this situation one way or another. Especially if this is your only issue with your roommate (which I’m not sure about in this case).

Victoria:  If they ARE there all the time, they should probably chip in with rent and utilities. But at some point it becomes about how your roommate lives his life and you either deal with it or move/ask them to move.

Jaya: Definitely, and it changes with every situation. A few years ago I basically lived with my then-boyfriend for a few months, but his roommate was a mutual friend so it was much easier. I offered to pay rent but they said no, so I tried to make it up by cleaning up after myself and cooking and not spending too much time in the living room unless we were all hanging out. It’s not this automatic etiquette faux pas, though I do think it’d be polite of her to offer something like that.

Victoria: It’s just so hard.

Jaya: But like, we’re all adults here. People have overnight guests, and if she stays in his room mostly it seems like she’s making an effort to be clean and scarce. If she’s taking up a lot of space or making huge messes or a lot of noise that’s another issue, but I’m not sure that’s the case here.

Victoria: The hard part for me is that this person may be the roommate’s girlfriend, but she’s still pretty much a stranger to LW. I wish more shared apartments came with locks on the bedroom doors.

Jaya: Totally, just because your roommate trusts this girl doesn’t mean you have to. She might be a con artist and steal all your stuff! But if you’ve already brought it up three times and nothing is changing, I think you either have to accept it or move out.

Victoria: That’s just solid advice for most roommate situations.

Jaya: If she were to talk to her roommate a fourth time about this, what should she say?

Victoria: Just be like, I know we’ve talked about this before, but “Jane” is here almost every day and it’s starting to be too much. And then maybe suggest she can only be there say 3-4 nights a week, or that she can only be there when he’s there. And then if he disagrees, say then you need to start splitting the utilities at least 3 ways. Maybe you can talk about rent, but a lot of group apartments split rent by bedroom.

Jaya: Coming at it with a list of demands definitely helps, and it can also help you figure out what you’re willing to live with. Like, is the issue that you think you’re paying too much in rent for three people living there? Or is the issue that she’s over all the time?

Victoria: I think paying rent or utilities can be a nice consolation if you lose the battle of how often they’re over, so at least you end up saving money. But yeah, it’s all about knowing what you can and can’t live with.

Jaya: And you know, just think about it from their side.  Maybe she lives far away and it’s just easier for her to hang out for a few hours instead of going home then going back out somewhere.

Victoria: Yes, if you were in their position, you’d want to bring over a significant other too.

Happy (Day After) Thanksgiving

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We hope everyone had a tasty and restful Thanksgiving and we will be back on Monday!

In the meantime check out some Thanksgiving tips we’ve shared with:

Modern Farmer

Metro New York

Short Question on Financial Etiquette

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Dear Uncommon Courtesy,

If I send a check and it gets lost in the mail, who should pay the bank fee to have it stopped? Me or the recipient?

Sincerely,

Fee’d Off

Official Etiquette:

Miss Manners and Emily Post haven’t really covered this, but in other check etiquette it is generally best to cash checks ASAP when you get them so people are surprised by the draw on their account three months later (though of course, everyone should be balancing their checking accounts- HA!)

Our Take:

Jaya: Whoaaaa. I have no idea. I mean I think you? Actually the post office should.

Victoria: Lol okay, so I answered thus when it was originally posed on Twitter: if you are close to the person, just write a new check and ask them to tear up the lost one if it ever arrives. But if not, since you are ultimately the person who will have the check amount come out of your account when it is cashed then its on you to pay the fee to make sure that doesn’t happen.

Jaya: What doesn’t happen?

Victoria: Okay, so say you write a check and it gets lost in the mail. You write the person a new check and they cash it, then the lost check shows up and they cash that too.

Jaya: Then they’re a scumbag?

Victoria: Well yeah, but it can be an honest mistake but you are still out double the money (which you then have to try to get refunded). So its your responsibility to cancel the check so that it can’t be cashed.

Jaya: Well yeah of course. Wait is the other option people consider is asking your friend to call your bank to cancel the fee? I don’t get what the issue is.

Victoria: No, I think the issue is that the person writing the check wants to write a second check and deduct the fee the bank charges for canceling the first check. Thus making the check receiver “pay” the fee. By getting less money. Which yeah…no. They have no way of knowing that you even genuinely sent the first check! You could be lying!

Jaya: Why do people insist on making things a thousand times more complicated? I guess this seems like such a non-issue to me. I can’t imagine a situation in which I wouldn’t call my bank to cancel the check, pay whatever fee, and then send a new check. How is that not the standard course of action for everyone?

Victoria: Yeah exactly. I mean, check canceling fees CAN be high, like sometimes something like $50. So I often hedge my bets and don’t bother canceling them.

Jaya: Wait so you just ask your friend to rip up the check, right?

Victoria: Yeah, I mean, my rent check has gotten lost in the mail before and I just never canceled it. I guess, if it did finally show up and they cashed it, they would just apply it to my next months rent. Which for me is fine, but for other people might be a problem if that would overdraft their account. So you just have to weigh that kind of thing against whether it is worth it to pay the fee for the peace of mind knowing that it can’t be cashed.

Jaya: This seems less like etiquette and more like finance. Or really like, etiquette: don’t cash double checks and scam your friends?

Victoria: Haha yeah true. And business-wise, there is no way you are ever going to get, say the cable company, to pay your canceled check fee, they will laugh at you. I think it was a worthwhile etiquette question to ask though- a young person might just not know what is the social norm here!